Religulous

[karlhenning]

Zzzzzzzzz....

Quoted for truth.

[Homo Aestheticus]

David and Elgarian,

Some questions if I may:

Should a person belong to a organized religion, even if he or she didn't believe in the god ? Many people feel that believing in a god is a good idea - irrespective of if they believe or not.

Well is it ?  How do we decide ?  Does it matter if the god exists or not for it to be a good idea ?

[Bulldog]

David and Elgarian,

Some questions if I may:

Should a person belong to a organized religion, even if he or she didn't believe in the god ? Many people feel that believing in a god is a good idea - irrespective of if they believe or not.

Well is it ?  How do we decide ? 

You need to think for yourself.  There isn't any "we decide"; you make your own decision.  There's also no "should" in this matter. 

[Brian]

David and Elgarian,

Some questions if I may:

Should a person belong to a organized religion, even if he or she didn't believe in the god ? Many people feel that believing in a god is a good idea - irrespective of if they believe or not.

Why should you pretend to believe that which you do not? Hypocrisy is a greater sin than heresy.

[zamyrabyrd]

Why should you pretend to believe that which you do not? Hypocrisy is a greater sin than heresy.

The behavior of some clergy (bad personal experience with quite a few over the years) led me to the conclusion that the contradictions in their behavior in contrast to what they preach is actually based on their own ambivalence. In short, many of them don't really believe what they are talking about.

Maybe such people think they can "fake it until they make it" or that the business of religion, telling people what they need or want to hear can smooth them over the rough spots, in other words, the gaping holes in their own unbelief.

ZB

[Elgarian]

Does it matter if the god exists or not for it to be a good idea ?

I said I wouldn't contribute to this thread any further, but that's a reasonable question, so I'll respond to it; and then I'm done.

Consider the desk which is probably in front of you. Do you believe in it? Let's ask ourselves what it is. A biologist might tell us about the wood from which it was made; a chemist might analyse its chemical structure; a physicist might tell you it was composed of atoms and moleclues, but then go on to explain the nature of those atoms in terms of fundamental 'particles' that aren't really 'particles at all, but are interlocking wave functions that can really only be described mathematically. And so on - and the deeper we go, the less like a desk it seems. And by the time we're left with all these pages and pages of mathematics, we might begin to wonder whether we're really getting to grips with our original 'desk' at all, or indeed, we might start to wonder about the very nature of existence of an object like a 'desk'. And of course, these theories could in any case be disproved next week. That's what science is like; that how it works; that's the risk it takes, and the source of its strength. We will be in perpetual doubt about the nature of reality. The only sure thing about the desk is that it isn't what it appears to be.

The fact is that what we want from a desk is that we can put our computer on it, and a mug of coffee, and get on with checking our emails because we have lives to live. If we don't understand the fundamental nature of the desk and its underlying physics, or if we have no ultimate reassurance except by experience, that our mug of coffee won't fall through it, we nevertheless go on using it. The question of 'the truth' about the desk doesn't really arise in any practical sense. We form a set of assumptions about our deskish expectations, and proceed. Maybe one day the desk will turn to powder. Maybe one day someone will enter your study and claim to be unable to see the desk, and even try to persuade you that your desk is an illusion. But as long as it continues to support your mug of coffee, you're going to carry on as before, despite all these uncertainties. Because the desk works.

So ... is belief in the desk a good idea?

[karlhenning]

The behavior of some clergy (bad personal experience with quite a few over the years) led me to the conclusion that the contradictions in their behavior in contrast to what they preach is actually based on their own ambivalence. In short, many of them don't really believe what they are talking about.

That's an impressively thoughtful and well-considered approach to the matter, ZB.

Sure we could not interest you instead in Eric's puerile 2-D response of, It must mean that the Christian faith is WRONG!! . . . ?  0:)

[DavidW]

That's an impressively thoughtful and well-considered approach to the matter, ZB.

Sure we could not interest you instead in Eric's puerile 2-D response of, It must mean that the Christian faith is WRONG!! . . . ?  0:)

As opposed to Newman's 3d nonsense!

I had read in a book (written by the dude that's now pope I actually read it before he was pope or I knew who he was) that while atheists struggle with the doubt that there really is something else, theists deal with the doubt that there is not.  No matter what, there is no true peace, you will still be in conflict.  I guess that's what makes faith powerful, is believing in the face of doubt.

I suppose that many have a crisis at some point and keep going through the motions but wonder if they believe.  I submit that is a question for them to resolve and not Eric. 0:)

[karlhenning]

As opposed to Newman's 3d nonsense!

Dude, I'll send you my glasses! 

[DavidW]

Dude, I'll send you my glasses! 

The sad thing is that I was imagining Newman criticizing the Apollo landing footage when I watched it last night on the news.  "Why is that flag waving in the wind?  What wind on the moon!?  It's a conspiracy I tells ya!!"

[zamyrabyrd]

That's an impressively thoughtful and well-considered approach to the matter, ZB.

Thanks. I got the original idea from the cynical pastor in the "Simpsons", the one with the troublemaking daughter. And I found the latter to be strangely a repeating pattern, usually having three kids with one of them going off the deep end by way of rebellion. I'm waiting to see in two cases if Johnny Reb turns out to be 'holier" than his dad in a few years. (I put the quotes on purpose, because the rebel usually knows on a deep level that his parents are ambivalent about what they say and preach.)

ZB

[Brünnhilde ewig]

Yes, it's about religion:

http://www.culturepub.fr/videos/rubber-cement-colle-les-nonnes.html