Mozart a fraud?

[Rod Corkin]

I have been present on OpenMozart, Mozart Forum, Beethoven Reference Site, CMG, CMM (all of whom failed to possess the infinite patience of GMG)

Rob survived for 2757 posts at CMM, don't say we are not impatient. The others yes (I have been a member of them all too other than OM) but not CMM. Let's see how long he lasts here...

[karlhenning]

Oh, I don't see him being banned from GMG at all.

Just allowed plenty of rope 

[Gurn Blanston]

Rob survived for 2757 posts at CMM, don't say we are not impatient. The others yes (I have been a member of them all too other than OM) but not CMM. Let's see how long he lasts here...

I know, I truly admired your patience, although I believed going in that he would last forever there. Chances are that Robert will merely run out of steam here, apparently we are a much larger teapot than even HE can heat up. Fact of the matter is, 75% of our posters couldn't care less who wrote Mozart's music and the other 25% are rather more amused than outraged.

[Holly]

You're treating the various classical music discussion sites as if they are related to one another.  So, you, Corkin and Newman pop up here to continue unsavory communications initiated at other sites.  

This is CMG; it stands alone and is the best discussion site on the internet.  Please keep your comments about the goings-on at other sites to yourself.  We have sufficient arguments that are initiated here and don't need more added to the mix.

As I suggested earlier, post on other threads that interest you and stop being a trouble-maker.

I'm grateful to Gurn Blanston for confirming the account I gave of the timing and other aspects of my involvement here.  This shows how misinformed some of you are.

To answer the comments above.  

(i)  I am not in any way looking to "continue unsavory communications" initiated at other sites.  Regarding Rod Corkin's intervention, I merely questioned his assertion that there is some kind of "Mozartian" brigade that follows Robert Newman around from forum to forum.  It is not generally true, and he now realises that which explains why he has not come back.  I am entitled to make such an observation, aren't I?  Perhaps if you think I am not so allowed  you could take this up with the Moderators. Thank you so much.

(ii)  I am glad that you think that CMG is the best classical music discussion site on the internet.  I would probably agree with that.  I am sure that any CMGers reading this will be delighted.  

(iii)  I take exception to your stricture to me to "post on other threads that interest you and stop being a trouble-maker".  I will post wherever I like.  I could suggest to you that you should stop posting in this thread?  How would you like that?  As for me being a "trouble-maker", I think you must some attention to your "antennae".  On the contrary, I have posted a number of highly relevant questions to Newman in this thread, and was more than happy to see the whole thing collapse, as I made clear if you care to scroll back a couple of days.

[Gurn Blanston]

Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who...

[DavidRoss]

...once I got over the shock of his methods I was vastly entertained.

Yes--the obsessive presentation of preposterous assertions as "fact" and manifold denial of established facts, the constant ground-shifting and circularity of his arguments, and most of all the utter harmlessness of his particular fixation, make him far more amusing than most of the similar nutcases who show up from time to time to press their agenda and corrupt the impressionable minds of our youth.

It's not as if he's advocating sexual tourism exploiting third world children sold into slavery as prostitutes...or assaulting members with bigoted stereotypes of their religious, political, gender, or ethnic affiliations...or going out of his way to attack newbies and discourage them from participating on the forum.  He's just funnin' around with claims so patently absurd that none but the tin foil hat brigade would lend them any credence.

Can anyone confirm that this is a photo of Newman responding to factual corrections of his outlandish claims?

[Rod Corkin]

I know, I truly admired your patience, although I believed going in that he would last forever there. Chances are that Robert will merely run out of steam here, apparently we are a much larger teapot than even HE can heat up. Fact of the matter is, 75% of our posters couldn't care less who wrote Mozart's music and the other 25% are rather more amused than outraged.

You paint an idylic picture of GMG that I can barely recognise Gurn, there are more wolves here than I could shake a stick at, but at the time most people at CMM couldn't care less who composed Figaro for example, I stated this myself, it just so happened that the whole of MozartForum joined my site when Rob got going on the subject, and then promptly dissappeared when I later asked for some critical assessments of the music itself, which we looked at in detail in a seperate conspiracy-free topic on the opera. The conspiracy Figaro topic recieved 3035 posts, whilst the more conventional exploration of Figaro received about 220 posts. What is the point of arguing over music that even Mozartians have little to say about? Really I wonder why Rob bothers...

[Brian]

You paint an idylic picture of GMG that I can barely recognise Gurn, there are more wolves here than I could shake a stick at,

I don't know. I find GMG to be an incredibly nice place full of kind, generally wonderful people. We have our disagreements but very few of us could be called "wolves."

[Rod Corkin]

I don't know. I find GMG to be an incredibly nice place full of kind, generally wonderful people. We have our disagreements but very few of us could be called "wolves."

Er, you must have missed out on a lot of topics here Brian!

[DavidRoss]

I don't know. I find GMG to be an incredibly nice place full of kind, generally wonderful people. We have our disagreements but very few of us could be called "wolves."

Agreed.  Aside from a couple of folks whose occasional aggressiveness makes me wonder whether they've gone off their meds (and a couple whose regular aggressiveness makes me suspect that they need meds--neither of whom is active at present  ), all the regulars here are pretty kind and warm hearted.  That is not to say that we don't all get peevish on occasion, or that there aren't several of us who find amusement in puncturing the pretensions of pompous know-it-alls, but afflicting the humorless self-impressed is hardly wolfish behaviour.  It's actually a kindness, as even Rod will come to recognize if he ever stops taking himself so seriously and learns to see himself as he presents to others rather than as he imagines himself to be.

In fact, the relative dearth of pompous twits is one of the primary reasons I find GMG so much more hospitable and fun than CMG and some other sites I have visited.

[robnewman]

Yes--the obsessive presentation of preposterous assertions as "fact" and manifold denial of established facts, the constant ground-shifting and circularity of his arguments, and most of all the utter harmlessness of his particular fixation, make him far more amusing than most of the similar nutcases who show up from time to time to press their agenda and corrupt the impressionable minds of our youth.

It's not as if he's advocating sexual tourism exploiting third world children sold into slavery as prostitutes...or assaulting members with bigoted stereotypes of their religious, political, gender, or ethnic affiliations...or going out of his way to attack newbies and discourage them from participating on the forum.  He's just funnin' around with claims so patently absurd that none but the tin foil hat brigade would lend them any credence.

Can anyone confirm that this is a photo of Newman responding to factual corrections of his outlandish claims?

Since this thread is entitled 'Mozart A Fraud' I can't help noticing that David Ross is being allowed, post after post, to ignore the actual subject that is up for discussion but to post here anyway. On such irrelevancies as my supposed 'outlandish' claims. These consisting of nothing but childish and completely irrelevant posts. Posts which are really destructive of the forum as a whole and this thread specifically. David, any chance of actually contributing something here on the subject of the 'Haffner' Symphony ? Which was (you may remember) the subject under discussion ?  Or are you to continually demonstrate your inability to post anything of value to this thread ? As for the long running politics between Rod Corkin, Mozart Forum, Holly and various other 'custard pie' makers why can't we find a special place for such things, so that music and the discussion of music is the one and only issue on which posts are made. The alternative is for ill tempered and juvenile outbursts to be more and more the main feature of a thread which is on the subject of Mozart's career and reputation. It's clear they don't really want a discussion of evidence. They are spoilers, plain and simple.

A third party, looking at the bun-fights between different personalities would be disgusted that they are fast becoming the main focus of this thread.

And so, meanwhile, back at the ranch -

'Mozart's' Haffner Symphony
Part 4/5
(Watermarks and other Internal Evidence)

To Follow

///

[karlhenning]

I don't know. I find GMG to be an incredibly nice place full of kind, generally wonderful people. We have our disagreements but very few of us could be called "wolves."

I agree.

Also: I find it a place where one receiveth, accordingly as one giveth.

[Gurn Blanston]

Since this thread is entitled 'Mozart A Fraud' I can't help noticing David Ross is being allowed, post after post, to ignore the actual subject that is up for discussion but to post here anyway. On such irrelevancies as my supposed 'outlandish' claims. These consisting of nothing but childish and completely irrelevant posts. David, any chance of contributing something here on the subject of the 'Haffner' Symphony ? Which was (you may remember) the actual subject under discussion. Or are you to continually demonstrate your inability to post anything of real value to this thread ? As for the politics between Rod Corkin, Mozart Forum, Holly and various other custard pie makers why can't we find a special place for such things, so that music and the discussion of music is allowed to be the one and only issue on which posts are made. The alternative is for ill tempered and juvenile outbursts to be the main feature of a thread which is really on the subject of Mozart's career and reputation.

A third party, looking at the bun-fights between different personalities would be disgusted.

And so, meanwhile, back at the ranch -

'Mozart's' Haffner Symphony
Part 4/5
(Watermarks and other Internal Evidence)

To Follow

///

FWIW, I agree with you, Robert, let's carry on. Although you have to admit, that picture that David posted really captured the essence of some aspects of the whole thing that's going on here...

[robnewman]

FWIW, I agree with you, Robert, let's carry on. Although you have to admit, that picture that David posted really captured the essence of some aspects of the whole thing that's going on here...

Gurn,

It really does no credit to the 'Mozartean' viewpoint (the 'consensus view' of Mozart) that its supporters are so disruptive, don't you think ? And what sort of education makes them act in this way ? Anyway, I mention it because it's childish. Anyway, it's not everyone. But, of course, it's pathetic all the same.

Regards

[Herman]

It's clear they don't really want a discussion of evidence.

This is the funniest thing you ever said in your entire deranged mini-oeuvre here. People have been begging for evidence.

One word of free advice. It's evident you're very careful being super-super-honey-nice to every mderator that crosses your (deranged) tracks. Still your attempts to tar longstanding GMG-members as 'spoilers' who have no business posting on this thread are not very smart.

[robnewman]

This is the funniest thing you ever said in your entire deranged mini-oeuvre here.

One word of free advice. I know you're very careful being super-super-nice to every mderator that crosses your (deranged) tracks. Still your attempts to tar longstanding GMG-members as 'spoilers' who have no business posting on this thread are not very smart.

Herman,

A few words of free advice. Take a deep breath. And look at your recent posts. Have they in any way added to the reputation of this forum as a place for discussing music and musicians ? You should grow up and stop encouraging students to act in such a dissolute way. I don't care if they are longstanding GMG members or not. The fact is that this thread is on a subject which you have yet to make any contribution towards. Despite your multiple posts.

[karlhenning]

And look at your recent posts. Have they in any way added to the reputation of this forum as a place for discussing music and musicians ?

A great deal more than yours have added. Just saying.

[robnewman]

A great deal more than yours have added. Just saying.

Can you give us some examples ? Some examples of actually discussing the subject of this thread, that is ? Because the truth is that most posts on this thread today have had nothing to do with Mozart, have they ?

[Gurn Blanston]

Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who...

Right lads, let's do carry on, shall we?

[Josquin des Prez]

Because the truth is that most posts on this thread today have had nothing to do with Mozart, have they ?

Neither have your own posts in this past 15 years of disgraced electronic wondering. You are a stubborn one, my crypto-Marxist friend.