Mozart a fraud?

[robnewman]

Thanks again for the discussion. I'm going to be busy for a few days, so...

Regards

RN

Johann Sebastian Bach
Chorale
'Jesu, deine Passione ist mir laute Freude'
BWV 159

http://www.mediafire.com/?woqmnyroydm


//

[DavidRoss]

Herman, scrolling through this thread one could be forgiven for thinking it's pretty obvious you are one of Newman’s main enablers, just as you accused me the other day, much to my annoyance and shock/horror.  Members here have been advising to let this silly non-issue just die and let this thread be buried under more genuine discussion threads.  But you keep bumping it with more and more requests for clarifications which are obviously going to achieve nothing but drag us further into the mire.

Herman, you are out of your depth with Newman.  He has PhD in B.S. from Harvard, Yale, Oxford, and Calcutta. 

Herman. I suggest we let this topic die a peaceful death. Mr Newman has admitted he has no evidence, and that's it.

The same applies to David Ross who keeps sticking his oar in after repeatedly advising others to desist.

Pot calling kettle black, eh?  You clearly joined this forum only to participate in Newman's thread, Holly.  Herman is hardly out of his depth with Newman.  The former is bright, educated, perceptive, literate, and musically knowledgeable; the latter--solely on the evidence of his posts here--is not.  Herman obviously knows that Newman is deranged at best and does not expect thoughtful responses to his inquiries; to me it seems he is simply showing Newman up to help the less gifted souls here recognize the hollowness of Newman's claims--rather thoughtful, in a way, as uneducated and slow-witted folks might otherwise be taken in by this nonsense.

As for my participation, 'tis a pity you cannot distinguish between engaging Newman as if he were capable of rational discourse--which I think would only lend credibility to his idiocy and encourage him to continue--and laughing at his buffoonery, which is another means of helping the gullible to recognize the worth of Newman's foolishness.

[Rod Corkin]

Pot calling kettle black, eh?  You clearly joined this forum only to participate in Newman's thread, Holly.

Exactly. She is one of the people I was referring to who follow Rob about just to argue with him!

[Bulldog]

Pot calling kettle black, eh?  You clearly joined this forum only to participate in Newman's thread, Holly.  

I don't know if this is significant or not, but Holly registered here more than a year before Newman.  However, it also appears that Holly had nothing to say on this board before Newman arrived.

[DavidRoss]

I don't know if this is significant or not, but Holly registered here more than a year before Newman.  However, it also appears that Holly had nothing to say on this board before Newman arrived.

I stand corrected, Don--yet, the inference seems pretty darned conclusive given that she did not make even a single post during that year, but her first post appeared within an hour after Todd started this topic and she hasn't posted on any other topic since.

[Holly]

Pot calling kettle black, eh?  You clearly joined this forum only to participate in Newman's thread, Holly.  Herman is hardly out of his depth with Newman.  The former is bright, educated, perceptive, literate, and musically knowledgeable; the latter--solely on the evidence of his posts here--is not.  Herman obviously knows that Newman is deranged at best and does not expect thoughtful responses to his inquiries; to me it seems he is simply showing Newman up to help the less gifted souls here recognize the hollowness of Newman's claims--rather thoughtful, in a way, as uneducated and slow-witted folks might otherwise be taken in by this nonsense.

As for my participation, 'tis a pity you cannot distinguish between engaging Newman as if he were capable of rational discourse--which I think would only lend credibility to his idiocy and encourage him to continue--and laughing at his buffoonery, which is another means of helping the gullible to recognize the worth of Newman's foolishness.

Don't talk rubbish. 

I registered on this Forum on 21 February 2008.  That was 15 months ago.  I did so mainly to flit around the Board more easily than is possible for non-members.  I made some posts on various matters (not relating to Newman in any way) in 2008 but the threads in which they were posted were deleted by the Mods for reasons that had nothing to do with me.  One or two I recall were "Christi" threads.

It was "Todd", not me, who first raised this Mozart Fraud topic on 8 February 2009. Because I happened to be already signed up here, and knew something about Newman from previous Boards, I made a post that day which was relevant to Todd's inquiry.  I had no idea that Newman himself was going to turn here on 18 May.

You can check all these facts with the Moderators.  In fact I hope they look at this and comment.

I expect an unambiguous apology from you on this matter.

[Brian]

I don't know if this is significant or not, but Holly registered here more than a year before Newman.  However, it also appears that Holly had nothing to say on this board before Newman arrived.

Holly registers here every time something odd happens on another forum. She registered during some kind of Rod Corkin incident, and she appeared again to warn us about some other troll. (Ah! The notorious "Christi" threads!!) I also have some recollection of Holly appearing during another big GMG spat involving people from a different forum. I seem to remember her advising a pre-emptive ban once (this was Christi). I think Holly is a lurker who is a regular elsewhere and shows up here to warn us of battles on other websites, and help us allow them on our own.

EDIT: I will allow Holly's to stand as the definitive account as it represents the state of the facts. I can definitely affirm she did not "just" register to do battle with Rob Newman.

[Bulldog]

I stand corrected, Don--yet, the inference seems pretty darned conclusive given that she did not make even a single post during that year, but her first post appeared within an hour after Todd started this topic and she hasn't posted on any other topic since.

Holly is certainly a one-issue member, and I find that very odd.  Newman is also a one-issue member who clearly joined us only to rail on and on about Mozart.  How a person can claim to be a classical music enthusiast yet only delve into one issue is beyond me (and I'm not an eclectic type).

[Holly]

Exactly. She is one of the people I was referring to who follow Rob about just to argue with him!

As for you, you haven't answered the point I made which is that the only Forum people came to specifically to discuss matters with Newman was CMM.  And then they got the hell out of it once it was over, and who can blame them?  There was certainly no influx of Mozartians at T-C or CMG.  Or are you saying there was?  Come on, tell me the names if you can.  

[Bulldog]

Don't talk rubbish. 

I registered on this Forum on 21 February 2008.  That was 15 months ago.  I did so mainly to flit around the Board more easily than is possible for non-members.  I made some posts on various matters (not relating to Newman in any way) in 2008 but the threads in which they were posted were deleted by the Mods for reasons that had nothing to do with me.  One or two I recall were "Christi" threads.

It was "Todd", not me, who first raised this Mozart Fraud topic on 8 February 2009. Because I happened to be already signed up here, and knew something about Newman from previous Boards, I made a post that day which was relevant to Todd's inquiry.  I had no idea that Newman himself was going to turn here on 18 May.

So why aren't you posting on other threads currently on the board; there are hundreds of them.  Of course, you have every right to limit yourself to one thread, but why would you restrict yourself to just one?

[karlhenning]

And, such a one.

[DavidRoss]

Don't talk rubbish. 

I registered on this Forum on 21 February 2008.  That was 15 months ago.  I did so mainly to flit around the Board more easily than is possible for non-members.  I made some posts on various matters (not relating to Newman in any way) in 2008 but the threads in which they were posted were deleted by the Mods for reasons that had nothing to do with me.  One or two I recall were "Christi" threads.

It was "Todd", not me, who first raised this Mozart Fraud topic on 8 February 2009. Because I happened to be already signed up here, and knew something about Newman from previous Boards, I made a post that day which was relevant to Todd's inquiry.  I had no idea that Newman himself was going to turn here on 18 May.

You can check all these facts with the Moderators.  In fact I hope they look at this and comment.

I expect an unambiguous apology from you on this matter.

I stand corrected.  Apparently I was wrong.  I apologize for misrepresenting your appearance on this forum, based solely on the evidence of the posting history in your member profile.  I'm not sure what it is that you think I've done that merits an apology, but I'm happy to admit that I was wrong and to thank you for correcting my error.  Is that unambiguous enough for you?

[Bulldog]

As for you, you haven't answered the point I made which is that the only Forum people came to specifically to discuss matters with Newman was CMM.  And then they got the hell out of it once it was over, and who can blame them?  There was certainly no influx of Mozartians at T-C or CMG.  Or are you saying there was?  Come on, tell me the names if you can.  

You're treating the various classical music discussion sites as if they are related to one another.  So, you, Corkin and Newman pop up here to continue unsavory communications initiated at other sites. 

This is CMG; it stands alone and is the best discussion site on the internet.  Please keep your comments about the goings-on at other sites to yourself.  We have sufficient arguments that are initiated here and don't need more added to the mix.

As I suggested earlier, post on other threads that interest you and stop being a trouble-maker.

[Catison]

This is CMG

Freudian slip?

[Gurn Blanston]

You're treating the various classical music discussion sites as if they are related to one another.  So, you, Corkin and Newman pop up here to continue unsavory communications initiated at other sites. 

This is GMG; it stands alone and is the best discussion site on the internet.  Please keep your comments about the goings-on at other sites to yourself.  We have sufficient arguments that are initiated here and don't need more added to the mix.

As I suggested earlier, post on other threads that interest you and stop being a trouble-maker.

I know that's what you meant, Don.

Anyway, Holly's account is as she stated. However, the things that you, Brian and David said are also accurate. It is not as though this matters at all, actually. just sayin'. As far as it goes, I have been present on OpenMozart, Mozart Forum, Beethoven Reference Site, CMG, CMM (all of whom failed to possess the infinite patience of GMG) and a couple of others when Mr. Newman came along to postulate his convictions. By and large, once I got over the shock of his methods I was vastly entertained. In every case I was there before him. You just can't go to a classical music site and not expect Robert to eventually show up, it's like expecting the sun not to rise today.

I think it would be a good idea to refrain from attacking each other and to marshal our information to deal with the issues at hand. It is ever so much more fun to untangle Robert's information tornadoes than it is to give Holly a hard time.

[Bulldog]

Freudian slip?

Nah, I always seem to mix up the two acronyms.

[ChamberNut]

(all of whom failed to possess the infinite patience of GMG)

You can include TC in the mix also.  Probably the most impatient board in existence.  It bans members more frequently than I swat mosquitos on a warm late spring day.

[Gurn Blanston]

You can include TC in the mix also.  Probably the most impatient board in existence.  It bans members more frequently than I swat mosquitos on a warm late spring day.

Yes, I've been there and looked around, but never felt the urge to join, at least in part because of what you are pointing out.

[ChamberNut]

Yes, I've been there and looked around, but never felt the urge to join, at least in part because of what you are pointing out.

Well, that's why I'm here, and very seldomly there.  They tend to press the Ban Chute excessively.  M wouldn't have lasted a day there. 

[karlhenning]

. . . (all of whom failed to possess the infinite patience of GMG) . . . .

Just wanted to say that, since this is Rob's site, and you mods are 'merely' his caretaker agents, that the 'institutional patience' is Rob's at the source, so I do not consider your remark in the least immodest, Gurn, but simply a tribute to those you work with.

Leave it me to laud your patience, in particular, O postal patron of wildest Texas