Discussing Critical Content (written reviews, YT vlogs, podcasts etc.)

[Madiel]

As so often on here, everyone here is right, they just don't understand how we can all be right at the same time. 

No. It's not logically possible for the person who says "professional always has this meaning" and the person who says "professional doesn't always have this meaning" to be right at the same time. What exactly is dignified about not ever correcting anyone? Especially when what they were doing was "correcting" other people?

If you want an example of a context where "professional" and "amateur" are strictly used to refer to payment, not to standards, look at sport. The Olympics were exclusively amateur for a long period. Those people were setting world records. Some sports still maintain a rigorous distinction between the amateurs and the professionals.

Whether or not the reference to a "professional orchestra" was meant one way or another is not my concern. My concern is someone going around asserting that only one interpretation was possible, and telling other people that THEY were wrong for using a different interpretation.

Going around soothing people by telling them that everyone is right is the kind of thing that, taken to extremes, leads to Trumpian egos, and it sure as hell isn't the way your school teacher worked.

[Brian]

No. It's not logically possible for the person who says "professional always has this meaning" and the person who says "professional doesn't always have this meaning" to be right at the same time. What exactly is dignified about not ever correcting anyone?

Well, your correction could be wrong, as it is in this case. You seem to think "professional has always meant this thing" (notice I corrected the tense) is meant to say "professional exclusively and only ever had this meaning," when it is perfectly reasonable to believe that he meant "professional has also had this additional meaning," which is the interpretation supported by his use of the phrase "not just."

If you want an example of a context...

I don't, because I'm the person who originally used the word in that context.

[Madiel]

Well, your correction could be wrong, as it is in this case. You seem to think "professional has always meant this thing" (notice I corrected the tense) is meant to say "professional exclusively and only ever had this meaning," when it is perfectly reasonable to believe that he meant "professional has also had this additional meaning," which is the interpretation supported by his use of the phrase "not just."

If you're going to correct tenses, maybe you should go back and correct everything else as well.

I'm done here.

[Atriod]

@mahler10th Is Szell Beethoven one of DH's reference sets?

It is, IIRC it was his favorite set before the Wand/NDR.

[DavidW]

It is, IIRC it was his favorite set before the Wand/NDR.

Well the Wand set is exceptional, I definitely agree with him there!

[DavidW]

Article in the Guardian damned Manacorda's LvB cycle with faint praise:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/may/16/beethoven-complete-symphonies-album-review

How many Beethoven symphony cycles do we need anyway?  Especially if the musicians involved are not inspired to make it special... maybe don't record it?  Perhaps do something else?

[Brian]

Hmmm - yeah, I am a big Manacorda fan after his excellent Mendelssohn and Schubert, but after having listened to Beethoven symphonies 1, 2, 4, 6, and 7 so far from his cycle, I couldn't really identify any specific distinguishing feature of the set. The problem is just the enormous quantity of competitors nowadays. Even if you want fast, HIP-ish modern chamber orchestras, we already have Dausgaard, P. Jarvi, Mackerras II, Ades, and probably a few others crowded into that niche. They're all very good but at some point I'm going to have to stop collecting them if they're all very good in such a similar way.

[Todd]

How many Beethoven symphony cycles do we need anyway?

At least one.

Even if you want fast, HIP-ish modern chamber orchestras, we already have Dausgaard, P. Jarvi, Mackerras II, Ades, and probably a few others crowded into that niche. They're all very good but at some point I'm going to have to stop collecting them if they're all very good in such a similar way.

The inclusion of Ades is important here, because he had some striking insights.  Since there is always the possibility of that, at least one more cycle is needed.  The same can't be said of, say, Milhaud's symphonies. 

[DavidW]

Hmmm - yeah, I am a big Manacorda fan after his excellent Mendelssohn and Schubert, but after having listened to Beethoven symphonies 1, 2, 4, 6, and 7 so far from his cycle, I couldn't really identify any specific distinguishing feature of the set. The problem is just the enormous quantity of competitors nowadays. Even if you want fast, HIP-ish modern chamber orchestras, we already have Dausgaard, P. Jarvi, Mackerras II, Ades, and probably a few others crowded into that niche. They're all very good but at some point I'm going to have to stop collecting them if they're all very good in such a similar way.

I only wish Dausgaard had a cheap box set!  Oh wait I just remembered, since I've solved my streaming problems I can try again to listen to his lvb 9...