Cato's Grammar Grumble

[Cato]

I give this a pass. I recall fight being used in the sense of "verbal and only verbal argumentation" as a kid fifty years ago.

This does give me a chance to mention one of my favorite Sydney Smith witticisms.

One day he saw two women arguing, each from a window in a different house. Quoth Rev. Smith: They will never agree. They are arguing from different premises.

Wocka Wocka!   

"Quarrel" or "argument" rather than "fight" would have been the better choice, especially for a build-up to "violence," but for T.V. news such distinctions are usually not present.

[Ken B]

Wocka Wocka!   

"Quarrel" or "argument" rather than "fight" would have been the better choice, especially for a build-up to "violence," but for T.V. news such distinctions are usually not present.

I once read about a man injured when "a mugging went wrong".

[Karl Henning]

I once read about a man injured when "a mugging went wrong".

That works, if the meaning is (e.g.) mugging for the camera . . . .

[Ken B]

That works, if the meaning is (e.g.) mugging for the camera . . . .

Robin Hood: Men in Tights

[Karl Henning]

Manly men!

[Cato]

I once read about a man injured when "a mugging went wrong".

Great stuff!  Sad, but great!

That works, if the meaning is (e.g.) mugging for the camera . . . .

As in every Jerry Lewis movie! (R.I.P.)

[Karl Henning]

As in every Jerry Lewis movie! (R.I.P.)

Aye, just so.

[André]

Kim called Trump a dotard. Trump looked up his pocket dictionary, looking up for "doughturd". He should have looked at his pocket mirror instead.

[Karl Henning]

Not knelt?

John Middlemas kneeled in solidarity . . .

Is kneeled for real?

[North Star]

Not knelt?

Is kneeled for real?

Yes.

kneel, v.

Pronunciation:  Brit.   /niːl/,  U.S. /nil/
Forms:  pa. tense and pple. kneeled /niːld/, knelt /nɛlt/. Forms: α. OE cnéowlian, ME cnewlen, ME cneoulen, kneuli(ȝen, ME kneulen, ME knewlen. β. ME cnylen, ME cneolen, cnelen, ME cneoli, cneoly, kneolien, kneoly, kneolen, ME knelen, ( kn-, cnely), ME–15 knele, (ME–15 knyl, Sc. kneil(l), 15–16 kneele, 16– kneel.(Show Less)
Frequency (in current use): 
Etymology: Early Middle English cneolen < Old English cnéowlian = Dutch knielen , Middle Low German, Low German knelen ; derivative of cnéow , knie , knee n. The past tense and participle knelt appear to be late (19th cent.) and of southern origin. Compare feel, felt.

[Karl Henning]

Okay, live and learn!

[Ken B]

Not knelt?

Is kneeled for real?

I readed that, I feeled your pain, I knowed what you meaned. I sayed so to my co-worker. She understanded.

[Karl Henning]

Darn it, I like those irregular forms!

But of course, it was only late in life that I learnt that ahold is legit, too.

[Karl Henning]

The Submit was successful

[North Star]

Nothing to do with grammar grumbling but here's Finnish National Broadcasting Company's Nuntii Latini (Latin News)
https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2013/05/24/nuntii-latini

Nuntii Latini is the weekly bulletin of Yle (Finnish Broadcasting Company) in Latin. Launched in 1989, it is the longest-running Latin-language news broadcast in the world. In addition to the radio broadcast and podcasts, the programme can be listened to on the internet at yle.fi/nuntii.

[Karl Henning]

Of course, it should be wreak:

We will watch with pride as American justice takes its course — and with horror as Trump continues to wreck havoc from the Oval Office.

[André]

Lest the havoc be wrecked, of course!

BTW, what is the origin of the word havoc ? Merriam Webster only mentions it was first used some 600 years ago.

[North Star]

OED says a bit more:

Etymology: < Anglo-Norman havok, altered in some way from Old French havot (c1150 in Du Cange, havo), used in same sense, especially in phrase crier havot. Probably of Germanic origin.

1. In the phrase cry havoc, orig. to give to an army the order havoc!, as the signal for the seizure of spoil, and so of general spoliation or pillage. In later use (usually after Shakespeare) fig., and associated with sense 2.

[1385   Ord. War Rich. II in Black Bk. Admiralty (Rolls) I. 455   Item, qe nul soit si hardy de crier havok sur peine davoir la test coupe.
1405   Abp. Scrope in Historians Ch. York (Rolls) II. 296   Idem dominus Henricus..bona regia ubicunque fuerant inventa vastavit, et, clamando havok, fideles homines, tam spirituales quam temporales, quosdam spoliavit.]
1419   Ord. War Hen. V in Black Bk. Admiralty (Rolls) I. 462   That noman be so hardy to crye havok upon peyn that he that is founde begynner to dye therfore.
c1450   Jacob's Well (1900) 207   & for his euylle dedys his godys be cryed be þe kyng ‘haue ok’.
c1525   in Grose Hist. Eng. Army (1801) I. 194   Likewise be all manner of beasts, when they be brought into the field and cried havoke, then every man to take his part.
1604   Shakespeare Hamlet v. ii. 318   This quarry cries on hauock.
a1616   Shakespeare Julius Caesar (1623) iii. i. 276   Cæsars Spirit..Shall..with a Monarkes voyce, Cry hauocke, and let slip the Dogges of Warre.
1858   H. T. Buckle Hist. Civilisation Eng. (1869) II. i. 76   That bold and sceptical spirit which cried havoc to the prejudices and superstitions of men.

[André]

Wow! Super, excellent, thanks ! My curiosity was aroused as I couldn't find a latin or greek origin to the word, nor an english one. Being a noun, one should be able to derive an adjective or some other word. But no, it stands alone in splendid isolation.

Havokado in Spanish or Japanese maybe ? 

[zamyrabyrd]

Darn it, I like those irregular forms!

Me, too!

But of course, it was only late in life that I learnt that ahold is legit, too.

This article sums up the "a-" hybrids, very interesting:
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/a-hold-or-ahold

When it comes to pairs such as "apart" with no space and "a part" with a space, the spelling doesn't matter when you're talking; both sound the same. When you write the words, however, you might forget to add a space, or you might add an unnecessary one. This problem crops up with all kinds of words, but in this episode we're focusing on words beginning with the letter "a."

Words That Start With "A"

Here's a short list of pairs like "ahead" and "a head": "alight" and "a light," "abuzz" and "a buzz," "apart" and "a part," and, lastly, "ahold" and "a hold." As you can see from this list, the one-worders beginning with "a" can be various parts of speech: "ahead" is an adverb, "alight" is a verb," and "abuzz" is an adjective. The two-worders, on the other hand, consist of an article—the word "a"—and a noun: "light," "buzz," "part," and "hold." True, these words can sometimes be verbs, but when something follows the article "a," it's a noun (unless something such as an adjective comes between the article and the noun, as in "a delicious cake").