Author Topic: Cato's Grammar Grumble  (Read 477596 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline zamyrabyrd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
  • selig sind
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4640 on: November 03, 2019, 10:50:13 PM »

Well, it is sad.   One of the most addictive substances is readily available everywhere.  I was amazed, when I first visited (West) Germany 45 years ago, to see cancer-stick machines on somebody's fence in the middle of a residential neighborhood, often by a school-bus stop!   ???   The German cancer-stick companies knew how to find new customers!

I never ever was tempted to try it, since from earliest childhood I HATED the stink, the coating from the smoke on the windows, the rotting-Brussels-sprouts breath, the debris on the streets and even on the floors of buildings, I HATED the entire tobacco-kulcher.   My grandfathers died before age 68 from chewing (maternal side) and smoking (paternal).  My grandmother (paternal) also died before age 68.  On the other hand, my weed-free grandmother lived to be 90.  My parents had a miserable last decade when they were sick from smoking diseases.

Yes, I still hate it, along with marijuana, cloves, and anything else similar: lungs were designed for air, and weeds were designed to be pulled and mulched, not chewed, not inhaled.

You're spot on about the addictive element which after all, popular culture and advertising exploit not only for tobacco. They inflate the possible pleasures while downplaying and even lying about the nasty consequences.

It's interesting though even with warnings in bold print taking up almost half a box of cigs, those addicted just nonchalantly ignore them.  Addiction is definitely a mindset that ANYONE can fall into unawares. You can be addicted to almost anything and multiple addictions are not uncommon.  Fighting this mentality is harder than the actual illness in so far as it is riddled with denial.
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 19415
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4641 on: November 04, 2019, 01:33:48 AM »
Amen to all of that.

From me as well.
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent.”  --- Victor Hugo

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4762
  • Location: Germany
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4642 on: November 04, 2019, 02:59:59 AM »
Well, it is sad.   One of the most addictive substances is readily available everywhere.  I was amazed, when I first visited (West) Germany 45 years ago, to see cancer-stick machines on somebody's fence in the middle of a residential neighborhood, often by a school-bus stop!   ???   The German cancer-stick companies knew how to find new customers!
The vending machines are still there, although fewer and one now has to be 18 to smoke. The official age used to be 16 until fairly recently and with the 1980s type vending machines of course every child tall enough could get a pack (now they use age verification from an ID card). That it was possible to increase the age for smoking and ban smoking in many areas where it used to be allowed is one of the very few public health/environmental issues that was apparently so successful that it makes me keep some hope for similar measures that would be advisable but seeem socially or politically impossible today.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 55057
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4643 on: November 04, 2019, 06:24:02 AM »
Thanks, all! I have been a basket case from yesterday but with still plenty more to go.

Draw those deep breaths!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8938
  • An American Hero!
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4644 on: November 04, 2019, 07:58:26 AM »
Draw those deep breaths!

Amen!  I saw my mother-in-law (age 71-72 at the time) die from lung cancer over a period of 18 months, and it was a dreadful way to go.  "Them doctors don't know what they're talkin' about!" was her response to every request to quit, because she knew all kinds of people who had smoked until "they was 90" and never got cancer.

Well, she knew of two in fact, and my response always was: "Perhaps they would have lived to be 120 or beyond without the habit?"

To which she would respond: "Who'd wanna live to 120?!"   0:)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline André

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8612
  • Location: Laval, QC
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4645 on: November 04, 2019, 08:05:31 AM »
Draw those deep breaths!

Well, her husband did, and it did him no good  :-[.

ZB is right, addictions defy understanding and can befall anyone. It’s the body that controls, manipulates and tricks the mind.

My best wishes in this time of stress  :-X

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 55057
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4646 on: November 04, 2019, 10:44:13 AM »
Well, her husband did, and it did him no good  :-[.


Clean, fresh air!!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline zamyrabyrd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
  • selig sind
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4647 on: November 05, 2019, 05:23:35 AM »
Amen!  I saw my mother-in-law (age 71-72 at the time) die from lung cancer over a period of 18 months, and it was a dreadful way to go.  "Them doctors don't know what they're talkin' about!" was her response to every request to quit, because she knew all kinds of people who had smoked until "they was 90" and never got cancer.
Well, she knew of two in fact, and my response always was: "Perhaps they would have lived to be 120 or beyond without the habit?"
To which she would respond: "Who'd wanna live to 120?!"   0:)

Sounds like my father in a way. Despite a history of heart disease and late onset diabetes, he still smoked cigars and freely drank booze. He claimed there was no actuarial difference between those who abstain and anyway he wanted to "enjoy himself". (He was referring snidely to his brother-in-law a health freak, who succumbed about the same age, 78. But he missed an important point, the quality of life, not having to go around on a walker for his last two years due to the previous stroke and risking an amputation for part of his foot.

I actually found stubs in a hidden place after I washed out the ashtray completely! This is really NUTZ!

(Did you see my post about the cow shot by a bow and arrow? Some comedic relief:
Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3326 on: November 04, 2019, 07:21:17 AM » )
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Offline zamyrabyrd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
  • selig sind
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4648 on: November 05, 2019, 05:24:22 AM »
Well, her husband did, and it did him no good  :-[.

Hah, it was tainted air!!!
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Offline zamyrabyrd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
  • selig sind
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4649 on: November 05, 2019, 05:28:28 AM »
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Offline pjme

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 854
  • Location: Europa
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4650 on: November 05, 2019, 05:30:58 AM »
5.1 How could additives affect addictiveness of tobacco products?
The SCENIHR opinion states:

Possibilities to make tobacco more addictive or attractive

Tobacco products are manipulated by tobacco companies by the addition of chemical compounds, most of which are flavours. Obviously, the flavours are added to the natural tobacco to give the product a better taste thereby increasing the attractiveness of these products. This includes the addition of humectants which keep the humidity of the tobacco product at a desired level; dry tobacco generates an unpleasant harsh smoke.

“Light” cigarettes were introduced on the market in the 1970s. Typical for light cigarettes is their high grade of ventilation. Due to the delivery of less tar, the impact and taste of the “diluted” smoke is also decreased. It is therefore probable that the light cigarettes were “enriched” by adding more substances, and in higher amounts, to compensate for reduced taste and impact.

An important reason for using additives is to give the product a specific and standardised taste. A specific taste is important for the company to be competitive on the consumer market in view of the large variety of brands available. A unique product binds the customer/consumer to this specific product. The specific taste of a certain product must be preserved (standardised) to compensate for the yearly variation of the natural tobacco, because consumers do not like to smoke a product that changes from year to year. To circumvent this, some 40 or more substances per product are added to the majority of the brands in order to mask the variation. Additives with direct or indirect addictive potency

In the following two sections, various approaches to increase the addictive and attractive potency of tobacco products have been briefly described. Details of these additives and further information about their effectiveness can be found in later sections.

The addictive potency of tobacco products may in theory be increased by:

Direct enhancement of the nicotine content;

Addition of substances which increase the bioavailability of nicotine;

Addition of substances which facilitate the inhalation of tobacco smoke;

Addition of substances which generate compounds in the mainstream smoke which increase the addictiveness of nicotine;

Changing the physical properties of tobacco smoke, e.g. particle size.

The five approaches are briefly described below.

Direct enhancement of the nicotine content

No examples of increasing the content of nicotine in tobacco are known. Moreover, in cigarettes sold (or produced) in the EU nicotine yield has to remain below a maximal level of 1 mg per cigarette. Some Member States also have upper limits for roll your own (RYO) tobacco. Genetic techniques or classical selection of variants are available to produce tobacco with relatively high nicotine content. From public sources it cannot be deduced or concluded that such approaches are indeed used by tobacco growers or tobacco companies.

Addition of substances which increase the bioavailability of nicotine

Increase the bioavailability of nicotine by adding alkalising ingredients which increase the pH of tobacco (such as ammonium compounds). At higher pH (pH >8.0) more nicotine is in its free uncharged form, which would therefore more easily pass the (lung) membrane i.e. higher absorption leading to higher blood and brain nicotine levels. For details see section 3.8.3.2 on ammonia and other compounds affecting smoke pH.

Increase the bioavailability of nicotine by adding ingredients which serve as a carrier for nicotine.

Increase the effect of nicotine by inhibiting its metabolism.

Addition of substances which facilitate the inhalation of tobacco smoke Certain ingredients have local anaesthetic effects. As a result coughing due to inhalation of irritating smoke is dampened and the smoker can inhale the smoke deeper (and more frequently). Examples are etheric oils, such as menthol and thymol. For details see later sections e.g. section 3.8.1.

Compounds which have bronchodilating properties (opening/broadening the airways) would enable the smoker to inhale deeper (a larger volume of) tobacco smoke implying an increase in the bioavailability of nicotine. It has been proposed that theobromine, generated from cocoa, caffeine and glycyrrhizine, serves such a function.

Addition of substances which generate compounds in the mainstream smoke which increase the addictiveness of nicotine

It has been suggested that certain natural components in tobacco promote the addictiveness of nicotine. Examples are components like sugars, which when pyrolysed generate aldehydes. The combination of acetaldehyde and nicotine appears to be more addictive than nicotine alone. The addition of sugars may thus increase the addictive nature of tobacco products. In tobacco smoke or in vivo, tryptophan may react with aldehydes to form beta-carbolines, like harman and norharman. Both beta-carbolines are inhibitors of monoamine oxidases (MAO). Monoamine oxidases are enzymes that degrade neurotransmitters involved in addiction such as dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline. As such, tryptophan as an ingredient may potentiate nicotine addiction.

Acetaldehyde and other aldehydes can react in vivo with biogenic amines to yield carbolines or isoquinolines, which have affinity for the opiate receptor. These ligands are, however, formed in very low amounts.

Changing the physical properties of tobacco smoke, e.g. particle size

It is possible to change the physical properties of tobacco smoke, for example the particle size of the tobacco smoke aerosol. Considering the entry of particles to deeper lung levels, there is probably an optimum in size. Cigarette paper and/or filters can be modified in a technological way to attain an optimal particle size (see section 3.5). The size and its distribution of smoke particles can be changed to obtain an optimum so that particles enter deeper levels of the lungs. As a result, a more efficient absorption of nicotine from the particles and higher blood nicotine levels can be attained. Examples of such applications are the use of cigarette paper with a higher porosity and filters with higher ventilation (see section 3.5).

Source: https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/opinions_layman/tobacco/en/l-3/5.htm

Don't smoke! It's as simple as that!

Peter

Offline mc ukrneal

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9078
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4651 on: November 05, 2019, 05:47:19 AM »
Sounds like my father in a way. Despite a history of heart disease and late onset diabetes, he still smoked cigars and freely drank booze. He claimed there was no actuarial difference between those who abstain and anyway he wanted to "enjoy himself". (He was referring snidely to his brother-in-law a health freak, who succumbed about the same age, 78. But he missed an important point, the quality of life, not having to go around on a walker for his last two years due to the previous stroke and risking an amputation for part of his foot.

I actually found stubs in a hidden place after I washed out the ashtray completely! This is really NUTZ!

(Did you see my post about the cow shot by a bow and arrow? Some comedic relief:
Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3326 on: November 04, 2019, 07:21:17 AM » )
Must have been a really lousy shot. Even small calves are big targets. But I hope it was a kid version or something, because real ones can be super dangerous, especially when you miss. Still, that is a WTF sort of article...
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Offline zamyrabyrd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
  • selig sind
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4652 on: November 05, 2019, 05:48:18 AM »
Don't smoke! It's as simple as that!
Peter

Yikes, I'm sure there is a lot of manipulation in marketed products.
FWIW, I reluctantly made the premises an alcohol free zone more than 4 years ago, as addictions usually are mutually reinforcing. It doesn't seem to have done a lot of good, or my intelligently informed diet, which is another slap in the face.
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Offline zamyrabyrd

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4047
  • selig sind
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4653 on: November 05, 2019, 05:49:30 AM »
Must have been a really lousy shot. Even small calves are big targets. But I hope it was a kid version or something, because real ones can be super dangerous, especially when you miss. Still, that is a WTF sort of article...

Yeah, I thought it was a shame to get buried and hence unnoticed, in another discussion, too absurd!
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 55057
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4654 on: November 13, 2019, 06:55:09 AM »
Good grief! A news outlet headline: Arctic Blast Is at IT'S Peak...
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline André

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8612
  • Location: Laval, QC
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4655 on: November 13, 2019, 08:05:26 AM »
Terrible, isn’ tits?

Joke apart, this mistake has become extremely common - and, yes, even here at GMG... :-\

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 55057
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4656 on: November 13, 2019, 08:12:46 AM »
Terrible, isn’ tits?

Joke apart, this mistake has become extremely common - and, yes, even here at GMG... :-\

It's so common, I don't like to chide casual misuse. But journalists and editors ought, out of professional competence learn and use it right!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Ken B

  • Guest
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4657 on: November 13, 2019, 08:13:53 AM »
Its so common, I dont like to chide casual misuse. But journalist's and editor's ought, out of professional competence learn and use it right!

FTFY

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 55057
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4658 on: November 13, 2019, 08:16:05 AM »
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline North Star

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 17439
  • Location: Oulu, Finland
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4659 on: November 13, 2019, 08:42:09 AM »
I too wish everyone could use it's right.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr