Author Topic: Cato's Grammar Grumble  (Read 477585 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14168
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4680 on: April 05, 2020, 12:17:20 AM »
Does the adjective nude have a comparative form?

It has a superlative

Even the nudest nudist on the beach at San Tropez was wearing a necklace.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline North Star

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 17439
  • Location: Oulu, Finland
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4681 on: April 05, 2020, 12:29:22 AM »
Does the adjective nude have a comparative form?
Nuder and nudest make sense if they are used for describing the colour, and not the person with the most clothing of which they are wearing none.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14168
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4682 on: April 05, 2020, 12:29:47 AM »
And the comparative is in Joyce, you can guess which book.

Quote
Fantasy! Funtasy on fantasy! Amnaes fintasies. And there is nihil nuder under the clothing moon. When Ota, weewahrwificle of Tocelles, bumpsed her dumpsididdle down in her wooksark she mode our heuteyleutey girlery of peerlesses to set up in all their bombosities of feudal fierty, fanned, flounced and frangipaned . . . .
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14168
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4683 on: April 05, 2020, 12:30:59 AM »
Nuder and nudest make sense if they are used for describing the colour, and not the person with the most clothing of which they are wearing none.

How can you say that when you have a line like “there is nihil nuder under the clothing moon” from one of the greatest poets since Homer?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline North Star

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 17439
  • Location: Oulu, Finland
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4684 on: April 05, 2020, 12:42:21 AM »
How can you say that when you have a line like “there is nihil nuder under the clothing moon” from one of the greatest poets since Homer?
Make more sense in everyday language, I should have written. Nuder is also a variant of no other, which surely didn't escape Joyce.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14168
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4685 on: April 05, 2020, 12:55:07 AM »
Fabulous though. I read more than a third, less than half, and then abandoned it about 30 years ago. Maybe lockdown is the time to revisit Finnegans Wake.

One problem I had is that I got annoyed by all the half baked philosophy - Giambattista Vico's cyclical time etc. Maybe I’m more tolerant of that sort of thing now.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 01:44:36 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14168
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4686 on: April 05, 2020, 12:58:47 AM »
Does the adjective nude have a comparative form?

What about nuder fucker?

A brudder from a nuder mudder?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 55057
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4687 on: April 05, 2020, 02:48:44 AM »
It has a superlative

Even the nudest nudist on the beach at San Tropez was wearing a necklace.

Aye.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline steve ridgway

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1003
  • Location: Manchester UK
  • Currently Listening to:
    A Steinway and a xylophone falling in slow motion down endless flights of stairs
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4688 on: April 05, 2020, 03:47:44 AM »
Perhaps more logical than grammatical, but on quiz programme The Chase last night: "I couldn't have lost to a better contestant" :-\.

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8938
  • An American Hero!
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4689 on: April 05, 2020, 01:30:58 PM »
Does the adjective nude have a comparative form?

It has a superlative

Even the nudest nudist on the beach at San Tropez was wearing a necklace.

Ah, the wonderful world of "Absolute Adjectives," also known as "Non-Degree" or "Non-Gradable" Adjectives!

I remember witnessing a debate of sorts between my Latin/Classics professor and another professor (possibly in the English Department, but more likely one of the incompetents from the Department of Education), when the latter was insisting that absolute adjectives are always impossible at the Comparative and Superlative Degrees.

My Latin professor smiled slyly and asked: "Tell me this: would you consider Thomas Jefferson a good writer?"
The other professor took the bait: "Jefferson was a genius!   He was a GREAT writer!"
"Then you must know that he used the adjective 'more perfect' in the Declaration of Independence...'in order to form a more perfect union...' ?"
"Oh, well, that was just for emphasis, or maybe irony!"
Still smiling, my Latin professor winked and said: "Nevertheless, there it is!"   8)

And I came here to offer a recent monstrosity from the media chattering about the chaos-causing virus:

"We're in unchartered waters right now!"

I wish that word had been unchattered!  ;)   
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline steve ridgway

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1003
  • Location: Manchester UK
  • Currently Listening to:
    A Steinway and a xylophone falling in slow motion down endless flights of stairs
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4690 on: April 05, 2020, 07:05:42 PM »
Nobody will be chartering cruise ships now!

Offline Cato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8938
  • An American Hero!
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4691 on: April 06, 2020, 04:29:13 AM »
Nobody will be chartering cruise ships now!

Right!  Who would want to sail in unchartered waters?!

And a grumble from a few weeks ago: I am hearing more and more Americans on television who are incapable of pronouncing the two "T's" in important.

Women especially - with that bored, raspy, nasal, and highly annoying style of speaking known as "vocal fry" - are saying the word as if it were spelled "impor'uh" or "impor'eh" or even "impor'A" with the latter "A" pronounced like a 1920's car horn!

If you do not know what vocal fry sounds like, a show called Suburgatory had a character named Dahlia who was the perfect example:


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_NhA1gHATVE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_NhA1gHATVE</a>

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Online JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3592
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4692 on: April 06, 2020, 06:12:11 AM »
Right!  Who would want to sail in unchartered waters?!

And a grumble from a few weeks ago: I am hearing more and more Americans on television who are incapable of pronouncing the two "T's" in important.

Women especially - with that bored, raspy, nasal, and highly annoying style of speaking known as "vocal fry" - are saying the word as if it were spelled "impor'uh" or "impor'eh" or even "impor'A" with the latter "A" pronounced like a 1920's car horn!

If you do not know what vocal fry sounds like, a show called Suburgatory had a character named Dahlia who was the perfect example:


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_NhA1gHATVE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_NhA1gHATVE</a>

I am reminded of an old rusty joke concerning a man whose ego was greatly expanded when the doctor explained to him that he was "impotent"...which he mistook for "important".

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14168
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4693 on: April 17, 2020, 01:51:42 AM »
According to Martin Kippenberger

https://www.phillips.com/detail/martin-kippenberger/NY010606/171

Quote
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus: the facial expression when being nailed.

Should that be?

What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus?: the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus?: The facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus:? the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus:? The facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus? the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus? The facial expression when being nailed.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Kaga2

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 184
  • Currently Listening to:
    Mostly before 1900, but it’s not a rule
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4694 on: April 17, 2020, 06:06:07 AM »
According to Martin Kippenberger

https://www.phillips.com/detail/martin-kippenberger/NY010606/171

Should that be?

What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus?: the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus?: The facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus:? the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus:? The facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus? the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus? The facial expression when being nailed.
I like the last two, both are fine. The others are wrong. Emojis are not proper punctuation!

Offline steve ridgway

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1003
  • Location: Manchester UK
  • Currently Listening to:
    A Steinway and a xylophone falling in slow motion down endless flights of stairs
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4695 on: April 17, 2020, 06:12:15 AM »
According to Martin Kippenberger

https://www.phillips.com/detail/martin-kippenberger/NY010606/171

Should that be?

What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus?: the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus?: The facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus:? the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus:? The facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus? the facial expression when being nailed.
What is the difference between Casanova and Jesus? The facial expression when being nailed.

For what it’s worth ($156,000  ::)) I’ll go for number 2.

Offline André

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8612
  • Location: Laval, QC
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4696 on: April 17, 2020, 07:07:42 AM »
The last one. As it's a different sentence, it should start with a capital letter. The colon shouldn't be there at all.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14168
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4697 on: April 17, 2020, 07:19:10 AM »
The last one. As it's a different sentence, it should start with a capital letter. The colon shouldn't be there at all.

This is what I would have said.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14168
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4698 on: April 17, 2020, 07:20:55 AM »
By the way, is being nailed the same as being screwed? Is that what makes Kippenberger’s comment interesting?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Online JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3592
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #4699 on: April 17, 2020, 07:24:14 AM »
I would take the next to last choice and insert an ellipsis before the facial expression.
My reasoning is similar to Andre's. The ellipsis is warranted by the second sentence actually being a fragment.

By the way, is being nailed the same as being screwed? Is that what makes Kippenberger’s comment interesting?

In my neck of the swamps, yes.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk