Cato's Grammar Grumble

Started by Cato, February 08, 2009, 05:00:18 PM

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steve ridgway

Quote from: Mandryka on April 13, 2021, 09:37:15 AM
But you've got to be careful because, amazingly, it turns out that Ron Silliman is a yank! So what does he know about how to pronounce it?

I cringe most at London on Tangerine Dream's Tyger album in which American singer Jocelyn B. Smith, singing poetry by William Blake, pronounces Thames as Fames. :'(

Karl Henning

Quote from: steve ridgway on April 13, 2021, 09:47:12 AM
I cringe most at London on Tangerine Dream's Tyger album in which American singer Jocelyn B. Smith, singing poetry by William Blake, pronounces Thames as Fames. :'(

Yowch!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Cato

Quote from: Mandryka on April 13, 2021, 09:30:43 AM
A new exhibition shows that not even the people of Bury can agree the real pronunciation of the town
By Saiqa Chaudhari

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/15371909.a-new-exhibition-shows-that-not-even-the-people-of-bury-can-agree-the-real-pronunciation-of-the-town/

I had a Saturday job in Bury when I was a kid at school, I lived close to a train which ran from Manchester Victoria to Bury, I would take that train every day to get to school.

And I remember that it rhymed with cherry. But clearly, that's very disputable.

Great article!  Many thanks!

Quote from: steve ridgway on April 13, 2021, 09:47:12 AM
I cringe most at London on Tangerine Dream's Tyger album in which American singer Jocelyn B. Smith, singing poetry by William Blake, pronounces Thames as Fames. :'(

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 13, 2021, 12:57:22 PM

Yowch!



Double YOWCH!

An unpardonable sin against English and the English!   ;)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato

Last night Mrs. Cato and I happened to come a across a T.V. show about lottery winners in England who search for and buy a new house for themselves.  Normally such shows are not on the radar, but this one seemed intriguing as soon as we happened to hear the husband of the married couple, who had won the lottery, attempting to speak English in the opening blurb: he is from an area "20 minutes north of London."

Now we had visited London 2 years ago and had never heard anything like this:

"Oi ge' oil gi' i' a bi' uh uh go."    :o ??? :o ???

Fortunately we have "rewind" for broadcast shows, so we replayed this a few times.  It was an excerpt from later in the show, and subtitles at times would have been nice for our American/Ohio ears.   8)

In context I was able to decipher the above:

"I guess I'll give it a bit of a go,"    ;)  Meaning, I assume, that the man would give a certain house-for-sale a chance to impress him, even though he was highly skeptical that it would do so because of its location and price.

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

steve ridgway

That sounds like where I grew up in the Midlands. We tended to miss out "T"s like that, much to the annoyance of our teachers. The one exception was when singing "Away in a Manger" which went something like

Away in a manger
No crib for a bed
The li'el Lor Jesus
Lay down is swee Ed
The stars in the brigh sky
Look down where E lay
The li'el Lor Jesus
Asleep on the ay
The ca'el are lowing
The Baby awakes
But li'el Lor Jesus
No crying E makes
I love You, Lor Jesus
Look down from the sky
An stay by my side
Until morning is nigh...T
>:D

Florestan

Quote from: Cato on April 17, 2021, 03:52:07 AM
Last night Mrs. Cato and I happened to come a across a T.V. show about lottery winners in England who search for and buy a new house for themselves.  Normally such shows are not on the radar, but this one seemed intriguing as soon as we happened to hear the husband of the married couple, who had won the lottery, attempting to speak English in the opening blurb: he is from an area "20 minutes north of London."

Now we had visited London 2 years ago and had never heard anything like this:

"Oi ge' oil gi' i' a bi' uh uh go."    :o ??? :o ???

Fortunately we have "rewind" for broadcast shows, so we replayed this a few times.  It was an excerpt from later in the show, and subtitles at times would have been nice for our American/Ohio ears.   8)

In context I was able to decipher the above:

"I guess I'll give it a bit of a go,"    ;)  Meaning, I assume, that the man would give a certain house-for-sale a chance to impress him, even though he was highly skeptical that it would do so because of its location and price.

This only reinforce my idea that English is the most illogical and counterintuitive language in the world, both spelling-wise and pronunciation-wise. That it should have become the lingua franca of modernity is one of God's inscrutable mysteries.  ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: steve ridgway on April 17, 2021, 07:04:42 AM
That sounds like where I grew up in the Midlands. We tended to miss out "T"s like that, much to the annoyance of our teachers. The one exception was when singing "Away in a Manger" which went something like

Away in a manger
No crib for a bed
The li'el Lor Jesus
Lay down is swee Ed
The stars in the brigh sky
Look down where E lay
The li'el Lor Jesus
Asleep on the ay
The ca'el are lowing
The Baby awakes
But li'el Lor Jesus
No crying E makes
I love You, Lor Jesus
Look down from the sky
An stay by my side
Until morning is nigh...T
>:D

(* chor'le *)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

steve ridgway

Quote from: Florestan on April 17, 2021, 07:25:45 AM
That it should have become the lingua franca of modernity is one of God's inscrutable mysteries.  ;D

Why when we say English is the French language of the world, do we say it in Latin? :-\

Florestan

Quote from: steve ridgway on April 17, 2021, 08:48:12 AM
Why when we say English is the French language of the world, do we say it in Latin? :-\

False friend, my friend!  ;)
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

steve ridgway

Quote from: Florestan on April 17, 2021, 08:51:35 AM
False friend, my friend!  ;)

I suppose it's one of those phrases that doesn't mean the same in English as in the language it was taken from. ;)

Florestan

Quote from: steve ridgway on April 17, 2021, 09:00:18 AM
I suppose it's one of those phrases that doesn't mean the same in English as in the language it was taken from. ;)

I am not aware of any phrase that means the same in English as in the language it was taken from.  >:D :P  ;)
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

North Star

Quote from: Florestan on April 17, 2021, 07:25:45 AM
This only reinforce my idea that English is the most illogical and counterintuitive language in the world, both spelling-wise and pronunciation-wise. That it should have become the lingua franca of modernity is one of God's inscrutable mysteries.  ;D

History frequently defies logic, so it only makes sense.

Quote from: steve ridgway on April 17, 2021, 09:00:18 AM
I suppose it's one of those phrases that doesn't mean the same in English as in the language it was taken from. ;)
You can say that encore.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Cato

Quote from: steve ridgway on April 17, 2021, 07:04:42 AM
That sounds like where I grew up in the Midlands. We tended to miss out "T"s like that, much to the annoyance of our teachers. The one exception was when singing "Away in a Manger" which went something like

Away in a manger
No crib for a bed
The li'el Lor Jesus
Lay down is swee Ed
The stars in the brigh sky
Look down where E lay
The li'el Lor Jesus
Asleep on the ay
The ca'el are lowing
The Baby awakes
But li'el Lor Jesus
No crying E makes
I love You, Lor Jesus
Look down from the sky
An stay by my side
Until morning is nigh...T
>:D


Wow!   8)    But even that has more consonants than the lottery winner used!

Quote from: Florestan on April 17, 2021, 07:25:45 AM

This only reinforce my idea that English is the most illogical and counterintuitive language in the world, both spelling-wise and pronunciation-wise. That it should have become the lingua franca of modernity is one of God's inscrutable mysteries;D


Yes, very inscrutable!    0:)


"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Karl Henning

Solve this sudoku puzzle for relax!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Read it on Wikipedia: "John Lennon was an English singer-songwriter and one of the four principal members of the Beatles."
Someone explain to me the adjective "principal," there.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

T. D.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 27, 2021, 08:38:05 AM
Read it on Wikipedia: "John Lennon was an English singer-songwriter and one of the four principal members of the Beatles."
Someone explain to me the adjective "principal," there.

To distinguish the Fab Four (band was a quintet for a while in early days) from Stu Sutcliffe, Pete Best et al.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles

T. D.

#4776
Quote from: ultralinear on April 11, 2021, 05:43:21 AM
...

2 :  I have also heard "nuke-yoo-lar" as a pronunciation.  I think that comes mainly from southern states, but it could be more widespread....

I have seen the origin of this usage credited to Eisenhower.  Don't know how true that is ... but it might account for its persistence. :-\

Jimmy Carter famously pronounced "nuclear" that way. It was often remarked on / imitated.

Karl Henning

Quote from: T. D. on June 27, 2021, 08:53:35 AM
To distinguish the Fab Four (band was a quintet for a while in early days) from Stu Sutcliffe, Pete Best et al.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles

Seems unnecessarily fussy, all the same.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

T. D.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 27, 2021, 10:06:01 AM
Seems unnecessarily fussy, all the same.

True, but I have some sympathy for the people writing the Wikipedia entries (not that I'd ever want to contribute).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the "principal" was added after legions of Internet pedants noisily objected "What about <so and so>...???"

Karl Henning

Quote from: T. D. on June 27, 2021, 10:35:15 AM
True, but I have some sympathy for the people writing the Wikipedia entries (not that I'd ever want to contribute).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the "principal" was added after legions of Internet pedants noisily objected "What about <so and so>...???"

Aye, I see it ....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot