Author Topic: Cato's Grammar Grumble  (Read 555270 times)

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Offline Cato

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #100 on: February 11, 2009, 12:25:49 PM »
As a Germanic language, English should be quite allowed to end things with a preposition at times: German often uses prepositions as verbal prefixes.  In a normal sentence the prefix is sent to the end of the sentence.

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline DavidRoss

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #101 on: February 11, 2009, 12:39:23 PM »
One of my favorite rules is George Orwell's Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.
A rule to live by!

That, following Cato's Churchill quote above, reminds me of another Churchillism:

I forget the details, but at a dinner party one of the guests said, "Mr. Churchill, you're fat!"
Churchill replied, "I may be fat, madame, but I can diet if I wish.  You, however, are ugly."
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Dr. Dread

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #102 on: February 11, 2009, 12:40:42 PM »
A rule to live by!

That, following Cato's Churchill quote above, reminds me of another Churchillism:

I forget the details, but at a dinner party one of the guests said, "Mr. Churchill, you're fat!"
Churchill replied, "I may be fat, madame, but I can diet if I wish.  You, however, are ugly."

I thought it was "you're drunk." Or was that Brahms?

Offline Benji

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #103 on: February 11, 2009, 12:50:31 PM »
I thought it was "you're drunk." Or was that Brahms?

That ones goes something like:

"Mr Churchill, you're drunk!"
"Yes, but you're ugly and i'll be sober in the morning"

 ;D

Dr. Dread

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #104 on: February 11, 2009, 12:57:34 PM »
That ones goes something like:

"Mr Churchill, you're drunk!"
"Yes, but you're ugly and i'll be sober in the morning"

 ;D

Yep. That's the one. Hasn't this been attributed to Brahms as well?

karlhenning

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #105 on: February 11, 2009, 01:09:37 PM »
As a Germanic language, English should be quite allowed to end things with a preposition at times: German often uses prepositions as verbal prefixes.  In a normal sentence the prefix is sent to the end of the sentence.

Some days, it seems you can't throw a brick without hitting a character in Shakespeare saying, "Go to!"

Offline DavidRoss

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #106 on: February 11, 2009, 01:11:08 PM »
I also like the story of the woman who told him, "Mr. Churchill, if you were my husband, I'd give you poison!"

To which he replied, "If I were your husband, Madame, I would drink it."
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Offline Cato

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #107 on: February 11, 2009, 02:35:59 PM »
That ones goes something like:

"Mr Churchill, you're drunk!"
"Yes, but you're ugly and i'll be sober in the morning"

 ;D

In the W.C. Fields movie It's A Gift a man tells W.C.:  "Aah, you're drunk!"  To which W.C. says: "But you 're crazy, and in the morning I'll be sober, but you'll still be crazy!"
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Dr. Dread

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #108 on: February 11, 2009, 02:38:15 PM »
In the W.C. Fields movie It's A Gift a man tells W.C.:  "Aah, you're drunk!"  To which W.C. says: "But you 're crazy, and in the morning I'll be sober, but you'll still be crazy!"

Maybe WC stole it from Brahms.

karlhenning

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #109 on: February 11, 2009, 04:57:30 PM »
Mozart stole from Brahms  8)

Offline DavidRoss

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #110 on: February 11, 2009, 06:33:37 PM »
Jokes involving Brahms put me in mind of the young attorney who said, "Please don't tell my mother I'm a lawyer...she thinks I'm a piano player in a whore house."
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Offline Sarastro

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #111 on: February 11, 2009, 11:08:19 PM »
True, but what you've said still smacks of a lack of common sense.  One must have available time, and my job is a full time occupation. 

No one argues with that. Though I strongly feel it depends on a person. I know a professor who has just completed her PhD and turned thirty, and by the time she defended her dissertation, she had married, born three children, divorced, learned a new language and on top of that worked full time throughout the entire period. But it's a rare case, I think I wouldn't ever be able to pull such a stunt. :o And definitely not bearing children.

DavidW

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #112 on: February 12, 2009, 05:12:19 AM »
No one argues with that. Though I strongly feel it depends on a person. I know a professor who has just completed her PhD and turned thirty, and by the time she defended her dissertation, she had married, born three children, divorced, learned a new language and on top of that worked full time throughout the entire period. But it's a rare case, I think I wouldn't ever be able to pull such a stunt. :o And definitely not bearing children.

Yeah that's exceedingly rare.  But it's obvious she found the time by taking longer to get there.  Most people graduate between the ages of 26-28 and wouldn't have the time to work and raise a family at the same time.  To put it in perspective, I graduated at the age of 26, that is a four year difference.  Other people are not lazy in comparison to her, she simply took it slower, that is all.

Offline Cato

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #113 on: February 12, 2009, 08:04:10 AM »
Allow me today to place the most mephitic POX    >:D    on morons who curse in public!

In this case freedom of speech ends where my ears begin!   0:)

Word for the day: mephitic.  (Extremely foul-smelling)

As in Mephistopheles!   >:D
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Dr. Dread

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #114 on: February 12, 2009, 08:07:09 AM »
Allow me today to place the most mephitic POX    >:D    on morons who curse in public!

In this case freedom of speech ends where my ears begin!   0:)

Word for the day: mephitic.  (Extremely foul-smelling)

As in Mephistopheles!   >:D

Is it desirable to use words no one else uses? Are you really communicating then?

Swearing in public? No. How about at home or on message boards?  ;D

Offline Cato

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #115 on: February 12, 2009, 08:34:05 AM »
Is it desirable to use words no one else uses? Are you really communicating then?

Swearing in public? No. How about at home or on message boards?  ;D

Yes, you are communicating and expanding their vocabulary!   0:)

No!  $:)

Bad enough if it is mental!   :o
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Benji

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #116 on: February 12, 2009, 10:33:45 AM »
Jokes involving Brahms put me in mind of the young attorney who said, "Please don't tell my mother I'm a lawyer...she thinks I'm a piano player in a whore house."

I know that, but I cant think from where. Please put me out of my misery!

(and no kitty going to the vet to be put-to-sleep jokes!)

Offline Ten thumbs

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #117 on: February 12, 2009, 11:03:34 AM »
As a Germanic language, English should be quite allowed to end things with a preposition at times: German often uses prepositions as verbal prefixes.  In a normal sentence the prefix is sent to the end of the sentence.


According to Fowler, prohibition of ending a sentence with a preposition is not a grammatical rule but a modern superstition.
A day may be a destiny; for life
Lives in but little—but that little teems
With some one chance, the balance of all time:
A look—a word—and we are wholly changed.

Offline Cato

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #118 on: February 12, 2009, 12:27:40 PM »
According to Fowler, prohibition of ending a sentence with a preposition is not a grammatical rule but a modern superstition.

I have read that it came from earlier English grammarians trying to "Latinize" the language, but if there are no grammar books where the rule can be found, then it is another myth!

Like the prohibition on splitting infinitives.

e.g. "To boldly go where no man has gone before!"

a proclamation splitting not only the infinitive, but also infinity!    0:)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Cato's Grammar Grumble
« Reply #119 on: February 12, 2009, 06:44:52 PM »
I know that, but I cant think from where. Please put me out of my misery!

I think it originated with a woman politician. During an impromptu(?) conference with reporters the subject somehow came up about politicians and their unhealthy fondness for double-talking and how it reflected bad on the profession.

Which in return prompted the woman politician to jokingly quip something to the effect: "Don't tell my parents I'm a politician. They think I'm a prostitute." Implying of course there's nothing more lowly than a politician. IIRC it got a hearty laugh. 

Quote
(and no kitty going to the vet to be put-to-sleep jokes!)

But couldn't a replicant kitty turn the tables on a vet clinic? ;D
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach