Cato's Grammar Grumble

Started by Cato, February 08, 2009, 05:00:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Cato

I was reading a book review in the Wall Street Journal from the weekend and came across this curiosity:

...the Talmudists and the medieval commentators agreed that (in Gehenna) infernal punishments can be atoned for and are strictly limited to 12 months.

??? ??? ???

Am I missing something?  One does not "atone for" a punishment: I would think one atones for the things which caused the punishment.

It is nice to know that among these theologians the idea of eternal punishment  >:D  was not possible!  0:)

Perhaps there is an exception for grammar crimes!  8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Karl Henning

And to think the punishment atonement is mensurable in Earth-months, too!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Cato

Quote from: karlhenning on July 18, 2016, 07:42:20 AM
And to think the punishment atonement is mensurable in Earth-months, too!

True!  A month out on Altair IV could be a little longer!  8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato

A television commercial for a charter-school group here in Ohio says that they believe "every child is uniquely brilliant."  ??? ::) :o

Which phrase proves why you would never want to send your child to their schools!   8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

kishnevi

Quote from: Cato on July 18, 2016, 07:38:12 AM
I was reading a book review in the Wall Street Journal from the weekend and came across this curiosity:

...the Talmudists and the medieval commentators agreed that (in Gehenna) infernal punishments can be atoned for and are strictly limited to 12 months.

??? ??? ???

Am I missing something?  One does not "atone for" a punishment: I would think one atones for the things which caused the punishment.

It is nice to know that among these theologians the idea of eternal punishment  >:D  was not possible!  0:)

Perhaps there is an exception for grammar crimes!  8)

What was probably meant was a reference to the idea that saying the Kaddish prayer, giving charity,  and other religious acts done by the children are deemed merits of the deceased parent and mitigate otherworldly punishment. Like indulgences shorten Purgatory in Catholic teaching (or have they given it up?)...in fact, since Judaism downplays eternal punishment (the worst of the worst "lose their share of the World to Come", and there is no single agreed definition of what that actually means)  Purgatory is a good parallel.

Most souls get out of Gehenna before twelve months. Only the worst ones (presumably  not quite as bad as those who lose their share of the World to Come) stay twelve months. And since no child wants to imply their parent was as bad as that, Kaddish is said for eleven months. It is also recited on the anniversary of the death every year, but the theory is that the parent is already in Paradise, and prayers and charity in their honor are means to elevate them to a higher level.

Karl Henning

Thanks for the enlightenment, Jeffrey.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Ten thumbs

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on June 12, 2016, 02:31:52 PM
FB seems to have a new term
USIES

Meaning a selfie with two or more people featured.

I'm sure a usie must be anything that is put to use.
A day may be a destiny; for life
Lives in but little—but that little teems
With some one chance, the balance of all time:
A look—a word—and we are wholly changed.

Cato

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 19, 2016, 06:27:35 PM
What was probably meant was a reference to the idea that saying the Kaddish prayer, giving charity,  and other religious acts done by the children are deemed merits of the deceased parent and mitigate otherworldly punishment. Like indulgences shorten Purgatory in Catholic teaching (or have they given it up?)...in fact, since Judaism downplays eternal punishment (the worst of the worst "lose their share of the World to Come", and there is no single agreed definition of what that actually means)  Purgatory is a good parallel.

Most souls get out of Gehenna before twelve months. Only the worst ones (presumably  not quite as bad as those who lose their share of the World to Come) stay twelve months. And since no child wants to imply their parent was as bad as that, Kaddish is said for eleven months. It is also recited on the anniversary of the death every year, but the theory is that the parent is already in Paradise, and prayers and charity in their honor are means to elevate them to a higher level.

Yes, thanks for the explanation!

As for indulgences, I must admit that, if they have not exactly been given up, they are hardly mentioned at all any more.   0:)

Quote from: Ten thumbs on July 20, 2016, 04:27:59 AM
I'm sure a usie must be anything that is put to use.

I await a cure for the rampant narcissism affecting the planet: perhaps an invasion of brain-eating aliens?   ???

Or is that what has caused this disease?  ;)

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato

Yesterday at a faculty meeting we were given an excerpt from one of the most gruesome inventions known in all of Human History...

...an "Education" Textbook!  ??? :o ;)

It has a chart with the following curiosity, where Level I is Incompetent and Level IV is Superior.

"Level I: Student frequently cannot work independently...

Level II: Student continuously fails to work independently"

Other charts had the same insistence that "frequently" somehow meant "continuously" and "continuously" meant something less than "continuously"!

This was on a page marked "Rubrics for Metacognition??? ::) :D  with the last word being a professorial preciosity in Education Departments.  My comment was: Why use "metacognition" when you could have used "epistemology" or, even better, "introspection" ?   ;)   8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

North Star

Metacognition: what happens when you continue to write after your conscious mental activities have stopped.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Karl Henning

I've seen it! On the Interwebs!

Thanks, Obama.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Cato

Quote from: North Star on August 18, 2016, 09:25:33 AM
Metacognition: what happens when you continue to write after your conscious mental activities have stopped.

Quote from: karlhenning on August 18, 2016, 09:26:15 AM
I've seen it! On the Interwebs!

Thanks, Obama.

;) ;) ;)

Last night a local television reporter, giving us the latest on another unsolved shooting, said:

"At eleven we'll have the remains of the investigation for you."   ??? $:)

I am not sure what that could be, but it certainly sounds unpleasant!  0:)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

kishnevi

Quote from: Cato on August 18, 2016, 08:22:06 AM
Yesterday at a faculty meeting we were given an excerpt from one of the most gruesome inventions known in all of Human History...

...an "Education" Textbook!  ??? :o ;)

It has a chart with the following curiosity, where Level I is Incompetent and Level IV is Superior.

"Level I: Student frequently cannot work independently...

Level II: Student continuously fails to work independently"

Other charts had the same insistence that "frequently" somehow meant "continuously" and "continuously" meant something less than "continuously"!

This was on a page marked "Rubrics for Metacognition??? ::) :D  with the last word being a professorial preciosity in Education Departments.  My comment was: Why use "metacognition" when you could have used "epistemology" or, even better, "introspection" ?   ;)   8)

Perhaps Level I should be parsed to mean "Student does not have the ability...."
And Level II should be parsed to mean "Student has, but does not use, the ability"

I did audit some education courses at the local university a couple of decades back.  The School of Education there was a real world demonstration of a corollary of Bernard Shaw's "Those that can, do.  Those that can not, teach."  Those that can not teach, teach teaching.   

Cato

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on August 19, 2016, 11:15:49 AM
Perhaps Level I should be parsed to mean "Student does not have the ability...."
And Level II should be parsed to mean "Student has, but does not use, the ability"

I did audit some education courses at the local university a couple of decades back.  The School of Education there was a real world demonstration of a corollary of Bernard Shaw's "Those that can, do.  Those that can not, teach."  Those that can not teach, teach teaching.

And those who fail at everything connected to education, become Education Department bureaucrats for state and federal governments!   $:)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

zamyrabyrd

I was just taken aback when watching a TV program on suspension bridges and hearing the plural of vortex (swirling water around the bridges) as vortexes! Anyway, I looked it up now and vortexes stands beside vortices as plural, coming first as a matter of fact. I was just wondering when all this happened. Of course, regular English words like box get es for plural, the same with compound words such as prefix, complex, etc.
Vortex is like matrix so it shouldn't be too hard to remember vortices being similar to matrices.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

Cato

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on August 21, 2016, 04:44:17 AM
I was just taken aback when watching a TV program on suspension bridges and hearing the plural of vortex (swirling water around the bridges) as vortexes! Anyway, I looked it up now and vortexes stands beside vortices as plural, coming first as a matter of fact. I was just wondering when all this happened. Of course, regular English words like box get es for plural, the same with compound words such as prefix, complex, etc.
Vortex is like matrix so it shouldn't be too hard to remember vortices being similar to matrices.

Yes, this is another sore point!  You are quite right, it should not be that hard, but this is the era of EEEZZZEEE everything, so apparently it is too hard for our latest group of humans known as GNRTN TXTNG.  The Wall Street Journal surrendered some years ago to "indexes" and no longer uses "indices."   $:)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: Cato on August 21, 2016, 04:51:12 AM
Yes, this is another sore point!  You are quite right, it should not be that hard, but this is the era of EEEZZZEEE everything, so apparently it is too hard for our latest group of humans known as GNRTN TXTNG.  The Wall Street Journal surrendered some years ago to "indexes" and no longer uses "indices."   $:)

"Indices" and "matrices" are easier to say. "Vortex" is not as common, but "vortices" sounds swell if you have a chance to use it. No need for "supercalifragolicious..." to impress others.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

ComposerOfAvantGarde

I need advice....

For some reason I keep switching between 'speciality' and 'specialty' in conversation. As I understand it, Australian English is probably much more relaxed with the 'rules' than other varieties of English....but is there a standard for this word which is technically more correct than the other? I would rather be consistent with my English but I don't know which pronunciation to use anyway. 

Cato

Quote from: jessop on August 21, 2016, 05:17:36 AM
I need advice....

For some reason I keep switching between 'speciality' and 'specialty' in conversation. As I understand it, Australian English is probably much more relaxed with the 'rules' than other varieties of English....but is there a standard for this word which is technically more correct than the other? I would rather be consistent with my English but I don't know which pronunciation to use anyway.

Both are considered correct, according to most dictionaries: "specialty" without the extra "i" is probably more common here in America: probably most people would agree that it is easier to say.   Possibly for fancy emphasis you might hear "My speciality is...ontology."  0:)

("Speciality" is underlined right now in red.)  ;)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)