The Passing of a Generation: Conductors' Ages

[Dundonnell]

The obituary notice in today's London 'Times' of the Russian conductor Veronika Dudarova at the age of 92 reminded me of the ages of so many of the great conductors still with us. There is a generation of towering figures which will sadly pass in the next decade or so.

Kurt Sanderling:                97
Sir David Willcocks:           90
Otmar Suitner:                 87
Wolfgang Sawallisch:         86
Stanislaw Skrowaczewski:  86
Rudolf Barshai:                 85
Sir Edward Downes:          85
Sir Neville Marriner:           85
Georges Pretre:                85
Pierre Boulez:                   84
Sir Charles Mackerras:       84
Serge Baudo:                   82
Herbert Blomstedt:            82
Sir Colin Davis:                 82
Michael Gielen:                 82
Raymond Leppard:            82
Kurt Masur:                     82
Paavo Berglund:               80
Christoph von Dohnanyi:    80
Bernard Haitink:               80
Nikolaus Harnoncourt:       80
Andre Previn:                  80

a little younger are-

Lorin Maazel:                  79
Gunther Herbig:               78
Gennadi Rozhdestvensky:  78
Vladimir Fedoseyev:         77
Claudio Abbado:              76
Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos: 76
Sir Roger Norrington:         75
Seihi Ozawa:                   74
Charles Dutoit:                73
Eliahu Inbal:                    73
Jerzy Maksymiuk:             73
Zubin Mehta:                  73
David Zinman:                 73
Vladimir Ashkenazy:          72
Neeme Jarvi:                   72
Jose Serebrier:                71
Vladimir Temirkanov:         71
Walter Weller:                 70

The generation of conductors in their 60s includes: Christoph Eschenbach(69), Dmitri Kitaenko(69), Jesus Lopez-Cobos(69), Marek Janowski(68), Riccardo Muti(68), Edo De Waart(68), Daniel Barenboim(67), Sir John Elliot Gardiner(66), Mariss Jansons(66), James Levine(66), Sir Andrew Davis(65), Michael Tilson Thomas(65), Antoni Wit(65), Sir Mark Elder(62), Gerard Schwarz(62), Leonard Slatkin(61).

[Coopmv]

The obituary notice in today's London 'Times' of the Russian conductor Veronika Dudarova at the age of 92 reminded me of the ages of so many of the great conductors still with us. There is a generation of towering figures which will sadly pass in the next decade or so.

Kurt Sanderling:                97
Sir David Willcocks:           90
Otmar Suitner:                 87
Wolfgang Sawallisch:         86
Stanislaw Skrowaczewski:  86
Rudolf Barshai:                 85
Sir Edward Downes:          85
Sir Neville Marriner:           85
Georges Pretre:                85
Pierre Boulez:                   84
Sir Charles Mackerras:       84
Serge Baudo:                   82
Herbert Blomstedt:            82
Sir Colin Davis:                 82
Michael Gielen:                 82
Raymond Leppard:            82
Kurt Masur:                     82
Paavo Berglund:               80
Christoph von Dohnanyi:    80
Bernard Haitink:               80
Nikolaus Harnoncourt:       80
Andre Previn:                  80

a little younger are-

Lorin Maazel:                  79
Gunther Herbig:               78
Gennadi Rozhdestvensky:  78
Vladimir Fedoseyev:         77
Claudio Abbado:              76
Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos: 76
Sir Roger Norrington:         75
Seihi Ozawa:                   74
Charles Dutoit:                73
Eliahu Inbal:                    73
Jerzy Maksymiuk:             73
Zubin Mehta:                  73
David Zinman:                 73
Vladimir Ashkenazy:          72
Neeme Jarvi:                   72
Jose Serebrier:                71
Vladimir Temirkanov:         71
Walter Weller:                 70

The generation of conductors in their 60s includes: Christoph Eschenbach(69), Dmitri Kitaenko(69), Jesus Lopez-Cobos(69), Marek Janowski(68), Riccardo Muti(68), Edo De Waart(68), Daniel Barenboim(67), Sir John Elliot Gardiner(66), Mariss Jansons(66), James Levine(66), Sir Andrew Davis(65), Michael Tilson Thomas(65), Antoni Wit(65), Sir Mark Elder(62), Gerard Schwarz(62), Leonard Slatkin(61).

You need to add Christopher Hogwood and Trevor Pinnock to the third group ...

[Bogey]

Christoph von Dohnanyi:    80
Bernard Haitink:               80
Nikolaus Harnoncourt:       80

These three jumped out at me.  Great list and thanks!

[Coopmv]

Christoph von Dohnanyi:    80
Bernard Haitink:               80
Nikolaus Harnoncourt:       80

These three jumped out at me.  Great list and thanks!

Doesn't Gustav Leonhardt do some occasional conducting?

[Brian]

Kurt Sanderling:                97
Otmar Suitner:                 87
Rudolf Barshai:                 85
Sir Charles Mackerras:       84
Herbert Blomstedt:            82
Michael Gielen:                 82
Nikolaus Harnoncourt:       80

These are the names that stood out to me. I didn't even know Sanderling and Suitner were still alive, and I am amazed that Blomstedt is 82 already - thought he was much, much younger for some reason.

Mackerras is maybe my favorite living conductor.

[Josquin des Prez]

It seems to me there's a chance they all might die within the same period of time. Then what?

[Holden]

This brings me onto one of my pet topics - retirement.

The list compiled could also be done with pianists, violinists, etc. What brought the whole thing to mind was the pianist Mieczysław Horszowski (June 23, 1892 - May 22, 1993). It was his stated desire to play a concert on his 100th birthday which he duly did and died 10 months later. My premise is that if he'd set an even later date he probably would have achieved it. Consider Kempff, Rubinstein, Richter, Horowitz and others who kept playing on until they could no longer perform but died at ages of 80 to 90+. Their craft kept them going. They had a purpose in life and in many respects musicians are unique in this respect. They aren't forced to retire because they've reached a mandatory 'age'. They are still valued members of our society because they are still productive.

My father retired at 63 (his choice) and was dead 7 years later. He spent those 7 years just pottering around. While he never said this I strongly suspect that he felt that his contribution to society was now over. His subconcious mind then delivered this message to his body and it responded. How many people do you know who have passed on within 5 years of retirement - people who seemed hale and hearty before retirement?

Sorry if I've sidetracked this thread but longevity and musicians just seems to go hand in hand. I intend to live a long and productive life. When I eventually decide that I will no longer teach full time I will still make sure that I'm involved part time and what I am doing is making a significant difference in the life of other (and younger) people.

[Dundonnell]

This brings me onto one of my pet topics - retirement.

The list compiled could also be done with pianists, violinists, etc. What brought the whole thing to mind was the pianist Mieczysław Horszowski (June 23, 1892 - May 22, 1993). It was his stated desire to play a concert on his 100th birthday which he duly did and died 10 months later. My premise is that if he'd set an even later date he probably would have achieved it. Consider Kempff, Rubinstein, Richter, Horowitz and others who kept playing on until they could no longer perform but died at ages of 80 to 90+. Their craft kept them going. They had a purpose in life and in many respects musicians are unique in this respect. They aren't forced to retire because they've reached a mandatory 'age'. They are still valued members of our society because they are still productive.

My father retired at 63 (his choice) and was dead 7 years later. He spent those 7 years just pottering around. While he never said this I strongly suspect that he felt that his contribution to society was now over. His subconcious mind then delivered this message to his body and it responded. How many people do you know who have passed on within 5 years of retirement - people who seemed hale and hearty before retirement?

Sorry if I've sidetracked this thread but longevity and musicians just seems to go hand in hand. I intend to live a long and productive life. When I eventually decide that I will no longer teach full time I will still make sure that I'm involved part time and what I am doing is making a significant difference in the life of other (and younger) people.

Excellent points!!

I suspect that you are absolutely correct in what you say about musicians and their longevity. As someone who retired from teaching just under 2 years ago I am very conscious of the need to remain active, particularly mentally Which is one reason I indulge myself with the research necessary to begin threads like this

In response to other posts-

-yes Kurt Sanderling is the undoubted doyen of the great conductors still alive. He retired from conducting in 2002 though at the early age of 90 He does have two conductor sons -Thomas and Stefan.

-I too was surprised at how old some of these conductors now are....but then time does move inexorably onwards

-and, yes, the passing of this generation does pose some questions about the quality of the successors(but we have had that discussion before, have we not )

[Bulldog]

It seems to me there's a chance they all might die within the same period of time. Then what?

Nothing to get alarmed about.  Conductors come and go as well as performers.

[vandermolen]

Interesting thread Colin,

I must play my Dudarova version of Miaskovsky's 6th Symphony in tribute and shall buy the Times to see what it says.

[jwinter]

I must say I was surprised that Abbado is 76 -- even accounting for his illness of a few years back, he certainly doesn't look it.

This says something about the nature of classical CD collecting, I think... after years of collecting records from conductors who have been dead for decades (George Szell, Bruno Walter, et al), I still tend to think of, say, Blomstedt or Gielen as from the "younger generation" of conductors.  If your focus is on recordings rather than attending live performances, your attention seems inevitably drawn to the past rather than the present -- which goes a way towards explaining the sorry current state of Decca, Philips, etc., etc.  Classical marketing, and most collectors' tastes, seems to follow the polar opposite track from pop music in valuing old over new, venerating not only older composers but older performers as well.  It's as if we mean "classical" to read "Classical" with a capital "C", as if we're a bunch of jaded Romans looking back and wondering why we don't have any artists to rank with the Greeks. 

Partly it's just economics, I suppose -- we know that Bernstein's Mahler 2 is great, so it's a lot easier and cheaper to just slap a new cover on it and reissue it, rather than take a risk on a new conductor (not to even mention a new work), and pay the expenses of making and marketing a new recording.  Thus the trend self-perpetuates, and we end up with piles of 40+ year old Beethoven recordings in the stores, and somebody like Elliott Carter ends up on a tiny indie label that's only available online.  And I, of course, sheepishly promote the trend as well -- why take a risk for $17.99, when I can have good ole reliable Bohm or Karajan for six bucks?

[Dundonnell]

I remember when Abbado was appointed to the Vienna State Opera as a strippling of 38

And now he is a veteran of twice that age!!

[Bulldog]

This says something about the nature of classical CD collecting, I think... after years of collecting records from conductors who have been dead for decades (George Szell, Bruno Walter, et al), I still tend to think of, say, Blomstedt or Gielen as from the "younger generation" of conductors.  If your focus is on recordings rather than attending live performances, your attention seems inevitably drawn to the past rather than the present -- which goes a way towards explaining the sorry current state of Decca, Philips, etc., etc.  Classical marketing, and most collectors' tastes, seems to follow the polar opposite track from pop music in valuing old over new, venerating not only older composers but older performers as well.  It's as if we mean "classical" to read "Classical" with a capital "C", as if we're a bunch of jaded Romans looking back and wondering why we don't have any artists to rank with the Greeks. 

I don't feel that way about it and am confident that new artists and conductors are at the ready to take over for those who are deceased.

[jwinter]

I don't feel that way about it and am confident that new artists and conductors are at the ready to take over for those who are deceased.

Don't get me wrong, I know that there are plenty of great new artists out there -- it's getting them past the barriers and into the marketplace that's the problem.  Classical music is still flourishing on smaller independent labels, but it's increasingly becoming a niche market.  In days past we had somebody like Eugene Ormandy who essentially recorded the whole basic repertoire -- I don't think we'll ever see that again, and all of those old recordings are still out there, getting cheaper by the year.

[Brian]

In days past we had somebody like Eugene Ormandy who essentially recorded the whole basic repertoire -- I don't think we'll ever see that again, and all of those old recordings are still out there, getting cheaper by the year.

They are getting cheaper by the year, for one thing, but for another, how often does a conductor come along who can record the whole basic repertoire as consistently excellently as Ormandy (generally) did?

[Benji]

They are getting cheaper by the year, for one thing, but for another, how often does a conductor come along who can record the whole basic repertoire as consistently excellently as Ormandy (generally) did?

Well how long has Simon Rattle been going? 

Ok, so 'consistently excellent' wouldn't be my own personal appraisal, but if you were to believe everything you read in Gramaphone... And Rattle is *ahem* rattling his way through pretty much the entire repertoire and getting most of it on disc!

[Dundonnell]

Well how long has Simon Rattle been going? 

Ok, so 'consistently excellent' wouldn't be my own personal appraisal, but if you were to believe everything you read in Gramaphone... And Rattle is *ahem* rattling his way through pretty much the entire repertoire and getting most of it on disc!

Hmm!! I would beg to differ!

Of all British conductors I would argue that Rattle has the most restricted repertoire in the area of British music. Mark Elder at the Halle has recorded far more British music than Rattle and shows far more interest in even the mainstream of British composers. Rattle has recorded some Britten and a little Walton....but Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Holst, Bax, Delius? He has shown no real interest in any of these composers.

[Benji]

Hmm!! I would beg to differ!

Of all British conductors I would argue that Rattle has the most restricted repertoire in the area of British music. Mark Elder at the Halle has recorded far more British music than Rattle and shows far more interest in even the mainstream of British composers. Rattle has recorded some Britten and a little Walton....but Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Holst, Bax, Delius? He has shown no real interest in any of these composers.

Totally agree with the British music point, but then neither did Ormandy show any interest in it. I was just using Rattle as perhaps the most obvious example of a contemporary conductor attempting to record the entire mainstream (and Bax, Walton and co might be bread and butter to me and thee, but alas not to everyone! )

[Dundonnell]

I accept your point about Bax and Walton....but Elgar?  I find it astonishing that Rattle should have, apparently, shown no interest in probably the most famous of British composers. But then Beecham didn't much either

[hornteacher]

Mackerras is maybe my favorite living conductor.

Ditto, although Abbado is a very close second.