Gurn's Classical Corner

[Gurn Blanston]

Actually in this case it's not a customer image. It's the official product image, but the product format is a digital download (mp3s). The GMG asin function only works for CDs, not downloads. (Actually, I wonder if the GMG asin function can be extended to handle the mp3 case. I'll make a request to this effect in the suggestions thread -- no harm in asking!)

Ah. My bad for being a know-it-all then. Now I know more.   Rob had said it would work for music books, anything they sell. Apparently he was misinformed too.

No harm in trying though. You never know what he can come up with.

[Florestan]

Gurn, confession --- and repentance --- time. 

Once I listened to all 9 Mahler symphonies on a single day. For half a year after I cringed in horror at the simple uttering of his name in my presence... 

OTOH, I can spend a whole day with Chopin or Schubert craving for more... 

Bottom line, I guess I'm much more Gurnian than I would like to publicly acknowledge. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn, confession --- and repentance --- time. 

Bless you, my son...  0:)

If it had been me, I would still be in hospital, or possibly prison.

[SonicMan46]

Just left the quote below in the 'Listening Thread' - a couple of pages back in this thread Gurn & I had a brief exchange on these works which stimulated me to buy the Apex recordings (from the Finlandia label) - acquired V. 1 & 3, and have V. 2 on order - my thoughts below and Gurn's on previous posts here - 

Beethoven, LV - Cello & Keyboard Works, V.1 w/ Anssi Karttunen on a Benjamin Banks cello, ca. 1770 (London) using a J. Dodd bow (London, ca. 1790) & Tuija Hakkila on a fortepiano, Paul McNulty reproduction, 1990, after a 5-octave instrument by Anton Walter, 1795 - on the inexpensive Apex label (Finlandia Records, 1994 recording) - was able to obtain Vols. 1 & 3, and just put in an order for Vol. 2; believe a Gurn recommendation in another thread - well, if you want PI instrument recordings of Ludwig's complete works for this combination of instruments and at bargain prices, then check out the Apex label - 

[Gurn Blanston]

Just left the quote below in the 'Listening Thread' - a couple of pages back in this thread Gurn & I had a brief exchange on these works which stimulated me to buy the Apex recordings (from the Finlandia label) - acquired V. 1 & 3, and have V. 2 on order - my thoughts below and Gurn's on previous posts here - 

Yes, excellent recordings, Dave. I've been through them 3 or 4 times now, like them better every time. As for labels, Apex picks up re-issues from more than one. Not sure what all, but they are always PI, and always good! I have Harnoncourt/Concentus Musicus, and Ton Koopman/Amsterdam Baroque among many others. Without knowing for sure, I think they must be part of Warner...



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Now playing:
The Ames Quartet - Fauré Op 045 Quartet #2 in g for Piano & Strings 3rd mvmt - Adagio non troppo

[SonicMan46]

Just left the quote below in the 'Listening Thread' - a couple of pages back in this thread Gurn & I had a brief exchange on these works which stimulated me to buy the Apex recordings (from the Finlandia label) - acquired V. 1 & 3, and have V. 2 on order - my thoughts below and Gurn's on previous posts here - 

Well, V. 2 showed up recently in my mailbox - planning to relisten to all 3 volumes of these Beethoven Cello Works (includes all of the cello sonatas + 3 sets of variations) - several posts back a brief description of the performers and instruments used); dates from the mid-1990s under the Finlandia label; now Warner Classics reissues on Apex at just ridiculously low prices on the Amazon MP - the fortepiano is excellent - an inexpensive acquisition for those interested!   

[Gurn Blanston]

Glad you like those, Dave. I think they're keepers.

But on the opposite side of the fence, due to factors to be seen, is this disk which I got yesterday:



When Haydn joined a group of friends for a summer trip to Fürnberg Castle, the time seemed right to toss off some fun music to play. The result was a group (over 2 seasons) of <>10 divertimentos. They were so popular that it was inevitable that they got pirated by publishers and padded out to be 2 groups of 6 and released as his Op 1 & 2. And they are still occasionally performed today as his early string quartets, like this:



But they aren't really string quartets, since there is no cello part, the bass was originally intended for a violone (string bass, double bass, contrabass, 16' bass etc.). Also, they are in 5 movements, and the movement design is a palindrome: fast:minuet:slow:minuet:fast, which was the standard layout for a divertimento. They are thus 'Divertimenti á Quattro', which is to say 'entertainment music for 4 (voices)'.

These versions by Piccolo Divertimento Wien are superb. The bass line played this way is a different critter, acting more the part of a solid line that the other parts can play off from, rather than when played by the cello, when it becomes one of the other parts, so to speak.

One day a group, possibly even this one, will see the intrinsic value in performing the entire group. It will be a great addition to the Haydn discography.



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Now playing:
Piccolo Concerto Wien - Hob 03 07 Divertimento á 4 in D for Strings 1st mvmt - Allegro

[SonicMan46]

Gurn - just curious concerning your previous post on the Haydn Divertimenti - the first 3 discs in the Buchberger Quartet box lists the works as 'Quartet Divertimento' - these are listed as Op. 1 & 2 - there are a total of 10 on the trio of CDs and each work does have 5 movements; of course theses are played w/ the usual string quartet instruments, including cello.  I'm assuming that these are the same compositions but just not played as intended originally?  Thanks - Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn - just curious concerning your previous post on the Haydn Divertimenti - the first 3 discs in the Buchberger Quartet box lists the works as 'Quartet Divertimento' - these are listed as Op. 1 & 2 - there are a total of 10 on the trio of CDs and each work does have 5 movements; of course theses are played w/ the usual string quartet instruments, including cello.  I'm assuming that these are the same compositions but just not played as intended originally?  Thanks - Dave 

Yes, that's it, Dave. I hadn't really got to listening to the Buchbergers versions of those yet      But I also have this excellent set, which only lacks gut strings to be wonderful:



It's funny, I bought this at BRO for pennies. Now when I see it at all, the most recent price was $85!   But my opinion, based on nothing more than my own prejudices and thinking about it, is that even if they call them 'divertimentos', if they use a cello and include it in a box of string quartets, then they are implying that they are merely early string quartets. It is exactly analogous to the early piano trios. Haydn said that Op 9 were his first string quartets, so I think we have to go with that.

I'll also mention this one that his a different slant on authentic:



It contains Hob III:06 in C major. The instrumentation though is lute, violin &cello. Whilst this was not the original, knowing that time historically I readily imagine it having been played that way, even with Haydn sitting on the sofa in the corner. In any case, this is a nice album including the other works too.

[SonicMan46]

Yes, that's it, Dave. I hadn't really got to listening to the Buchbergers versions of those yet      But I also have this excellent set, which only lacks gut strings to be wonderful:

 

It's funny, I bought this at BRO for pennies. Now when I see it at all, the most recent price was $85!   But my opinion, based on nothing more than my own prejudices and thinking about it, is that even if they call them 'divertimentos', if they use a cello and include it in a box of string quartets, then they are implying that they are merely early string quartets. It is exactly analogous to the early piano trios. Haydn said that Op 9 were his first string quartets, so I think we have to go with that. ........................

Yep, just checked the Amazon MP - same recording (above right) w/ different cover art - couple of 'new' copies being offered @ $248!  I cannot imagine the IQ of a seller thinking that he or she is going to make a purchase - what is the point?  And the Arte Nova label - I imagine that the BRO price was about $3?  BTW - just checked BRO searching on 'Haydn Hamburg' - 2 Arte Nova discs did come up but not the one above, unfortunately -     Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Yep, just checked the Amazon MP - same recording (above right) w/ different cover art - couple of 'new' copies being offered @ $248!  I cannot imagine the IQ of a seller thinking that he or she is going to make a purchase - what is the point?  And the Arte Nova label - I imagine that the BRO price was about $3?  BTW - just checked BRO searching on 'Haydn Hamburg' - 2 Arte Nova discs did come up but not the one above, unfortunately -     Dave

Yeah, same one. I haven't figured it out, exactly. I mean, they're good but they don't knock your d*** in the dirt. I was scratching my head when I first saw it.   Anyway, $9.96, IIRC for the 4 disk set. Back when I bought it, the 4 individual disks were available on the Marketplace for pretty cheap too. I went with BRO to save shelf space...



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Now playing:
Natalie Clein (Cello) / Julius Drake (Piano) - Kodály Op 08 Sonata for Solo Cello 1st mvmt - Allegro maestoso ma appassionato

[DavidRoss]

Yeah, same one. I haven't figured it out, exactly. I mean, they're good but they don't knock your d*** in the dirt. I was scratching my head when I first saw it.   Anyway, $9.96, IIRC for the 4 disk set. Back when I bought it, the 4 individual disks were available on the Marketplace for pretty cheap too. I went with BRO to save shelf space...

Wow, the Gurnatron is back!  (No one likes a dirty duck.)

[Gurn Blanston]

Wow, the Gurnatron is back!  (No one likes a dirty duck.)

  Yeah, well I was taking Rob's advice from the Bugs thread, since I got knocked off a couple of times lately. It had to be something I would remember myself...

Listening to anything good lately, David?



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Now playing:
Smith \ Banchini \ Plantier \ Courvoisier \ Dieltens - Hob 03 006 Cassation in C for Lute, Violin & Cello 3rd mvmt - Adagio

[Antoine Marchand]

Just left the quote below in the 'Listening Thread' - a couple of pages back in this thread Gurn & I had a brief exchange on these works which stimulated me to buy the Apex recordings (from the Finlandia label) - acquired V. 1 & 3, and have V. 2 on order - my thoughts below and Gurn's on previous posts here - 

That set is tempting, but I have two (three, if you count Wispelwey) sets on period instruments. And Bylsma seems unbeatable to me. And he recorded twice the five cello sonatas... Thanks God.

But I did some research and I will buy that set  because it includes every Beethoven's piece written for cello and fortepiano. Not just the five sonatas, but also the three series of variations and two other works for the same combination of instruments.

Sonatas for Pianoforte & Violoncello:
    * the two sonatas opus 5 no. 1 and no. 2;
    * the sonata opus 69;
    * the two sonatas opus 102 no. 1 and no. 2;

Variations:
    * the 12 variations on "Ein Mädchen oder Weibchen" opus 66, after the opera "The Magic Flute" of Mozart;
    * the 12 variations on "See the conqu'ring hero comes" WoO 45, after the oratorio "Judas Maccabaeus" by Haendel;
    * the 7 variations on "Bei Männern, welche Liebe fühlen WoO 46.
(Bylsma just includes the 12 variations on "Ein Mädchen oder Weibchen" in his recording with Immerseel)

Two other works for piano and cello:
    * the sonata opus 17, originally for horn but transcribed for a number of other instruments, notably the cello (realized and published in 1807, probably with the agreement of Beethoven);
    * the sonata opus 64, a transcription of the trio for strings opus 3, probably not done by Beethoven himself.  Nevertheless, the composer did not use this opus number for any other work, thus implicitly indicating that he accepted that this work could be included in his repertoire.


(http://www.lvbeethoven.com/Cedes/TheCds_ChamberMusic_Cello.html)

[Gurn Blanston]

Antoine,
Yes that is a solid reason to buy it. I have all those Bylsma disks too, especially enjoy the Bilson set. But the Karttunen/Hakkila really is a complete one. I also have the set on Hyperion by Pleeth & Tan which has the variations in it, anyway. Bylsma/Bilson is my favorite, but Karttunen/Hakkila is right behind, plus having the other things in there.

[Antoine Marchand]

Antoine,
I have all those Bylsma disks too, especially enjoy the Bilson set.

Me too. IMO, Immerseel is an excellent fortepianist, but his musical personality is less strong than Bylsma. Bilson, on the other hand, is his complete equal. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Me too. IMO, Immerseel is an excellent fortepianist, but his musical personality is less strong than Bylsma. Bilson, on the other hand, is his complete equal.

Interesting concept. I can see it is so. You're good. Really.

[Antoine Marchand]

Interesting concept. I can see it is so.

At least se non è vero, è bene trovato. 

[Florestan]

Inspired by a few other threads...

Call me a reactionary, but... it is my firm conviction, based partially on readings, partially on personal experience and partially on insights --- that in the Baroque, Classical and early Romantic eras (adopting the Gurnian timetable, that would be anything prior to 1850,give or take some fifty years ) music was much more interactive and user-friendly than it is nowadays. Moreover, the gap between "high brow" music and "pop" music back then was mucvh smaller than it is nowadays.

What I mean is that most --- dare I say all? Gurn, whaddya say?--- composers of that times wrote a good part of their musical output targetting precisely the cultivated dilettanti of which there were plenty back then.

Let us recall a most striking case in point: much --- if not all --- of Schubert's lieder and chamber music was written for the private enjoyment of his relatives and friends, all of whom were musically literate to the point of playing an instrument or singing.

Let us recall Goldberg Variations, --- se non e vero e ben trovatto --- which allegedly were written as a a cure for Count Kaiserling's insomnia...

Let us recall the innumerable Mozart's compositions for this or that instrument played by this or that Mademoiselle or Monsieur...

Let us recall Blavet's or Quantz's flute sonatas and concertos, written expressly for the cultivated French / German gentleman of the 18th century --- one for whom the flute was as familiar as the credit card is for the Western gentleman of the 21st century...

Let us recall Vivaldi's concertos, written for the female orphans at Ospedale delle Pieta without the slightest thought of immortality and preservation in mind...

Let us recall, generally, those times when music --- which back then was yet far from being "the Classical Canon" --- was not somet distant, esoteric and frightful thing, far and above from the judgment of the common educated people --- but on the contrary, something written exactly for the enjoyment and appraisal of common educated people...

Let us recall those times when "pop" music --- i.e, folk music of Italians, Germans, Englishmen, Frenchmen, Spaniards etc.  --- far from being opposed to "high brow music", was on the contrary a constant and sought-for source of inspiration for composers; those times when this or that "hit" of Haydn or Rossini made its way to the "masses"...

...amd let us compare it with today's situation, when most "classical" music is written as if purposely to make "pop" audiences cringe in horror... and viceversa...

...and let us blame this sad state of things upon Late Romanticism, with its misplaced notions of an artistic genius far and above the common man; of the composer as some sort of high priest and / or philosopher, who has unique access to higher spiritual spheres and whose artistic products are not to be enjoyed and judged by every knowledgeable person, but only by his peers; with its cult for monumentality, for grand-scale works, its rejection of anything that cannot be expressed by less than 150 performers...

...and also upon what followed, namely more and more abstruse, more and more esoteric, more and more un-hummable, more and more ugly (in the proper meaning of the word) music --- as if the essential ingredients that have been feeding music for almost a thousand years, namely clearly recognizable melody, harmony and rythm were some kind of anathema, some kind of "aristocratic" and "bourgeois" features that must be smashed ...

Bottom line, I think that in no other historical time has ever been such a large gap between "classical" music and "pop" music as nowadays... between what "classical music" composers write and what "cultivated dilettanti" are able and willing to play... between Bach's goal "to delight and instruct" and... whatever goal contemporary composers might have in mind, Karl Henning aside.

[Gurn Blanston]

At least se non è vero, è bene trovato. 

Antoine,
If, as I suspect, that means "if it isn't true, at least it sounds good", then couldn't agree more!



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Now playing:
Ruf \ Lautenberger &  Nielen \ Beyer 7 Berndt \ Uhl \ Koch \ Hoffman & Irmscher - Hob 07h 2 Concerto in G for 2 Lira organizzata (Naples Version) 1st mvmt - Vivace assai