Topic: Gurn's Classical Corner

[Que]

I know another online seller in Prague who might have that Pichl disk available, since it is a Czech disk. Oddly enough, they are called Online Seller... well, almost. But they are an AMP seller, so I can get good shipping price there. $4 (cheap).

Just in case! 

https://www.arta.cz/index.php?site=en&p=shop_item&k=&id=F10079

[SonicMan46]

Rolla TTT! - quoted below are two posts that I left here back in 2010 - WOW!      Appears that I owned the 3 recordings shown (note the 'Chamber Music' is a 4-CD set).  Since that time, I've acquired 2 more discs, i.e. first two shown immediately below and am thinking of purchasing the last one shown, which was discussed back when these posts were 'active' - there is plenty available on Amazon, so will do some more perusing.  So, anyone else into this long-lived Italian composer (1757-1841) who was Paganini's teacher and the director of La Scala in Milan for 30 or so years?  Dave

   

Rolla, Alessandro (1757-1841) - born in Pavia, Italy a year after Wolfie; he was a violin & viola virtuoso, composer, and teacher (including Paganini).  He was offered the position of director of the La Scala orchestra in Milan in 1802, and remained in that position until 1833.  A fuller Wiki Bio HERE!

He wrote over 500 compositions, mostly chamber works, symphonies, and concertos for violin and viola. I just acquired my first disc of this composer (pic below), which are Viola Concertos; 3 works designated as BI. 541, 543, & 547 - his thematic catalog was published in 1981 by Luigi Inzaghi and Luigi Alberto Bianchi, so BI = Bianchi & Inzaghi.

Harry has made comments in the listening thread on a multi-disc set of Rolla's chamber works. On the Viola Concertos, the performer is Fabrizio Merlini w/ Bruno conducting the Orchestra del Conservatorio di La Spezia - the performances are just excellent and the Tactus production team has done a great job in recording these performances!  Will certainly like to acquire some more Rolla -

 

Rolla, Alessandro - today received the CD packages shown below discussed earlier - listening to the Flute Quartets at the moment; composition dates unclear from the liner notes, but just melodious composing w/ well integrated strings - the flute is quite up front (Tactus seems to be quite good in their sound engineering) - if you like the flute combined w/ strings, then this disc will not disappoint! 

The other offering is a 4-disc set (comes in a compact 2-CD jewel box w/ good liner notes) - the first disc comprises Violin-Viola Duets which are wonderfully complex; Rolla was considered a virtuoso w/ these instruments and one of the best of his time - he also was innovative in introducing string techniques which were expanded upon by the likes of Paganini (one of his students).  The second disc is of 3 String Quartets - again excellent compositions, performances, and recorded sound - these are definitely transitional between the classical-romantic eras, i.e. late Wofie-early Ludwig? But the disc is just an enjoyable listen - keep in mind that for just over 30 yrs, this guy was the head of the La Scala orchestra in Milan - his job was to please the audience - I think this carries over into his compositions - all that I've heard to date (not that much considering his extensive output) fulfill that promise - Rolla is another of the 'lost ones' worth exploring -

 

[SonicMan46]

Romberg, Andreas (1767-1821) - German violinist and cousin of the cellist, Bernhard Romberg (see Gurn's post HERE) about Bernhard from 2010 when we exchanged a few comments about the 'performing cousins'.  A short bio of Andreas quoted below - he composed in many genres, including orchestral works and much chamber music - a selected list of his works in the quoted link, but a MUCH more complete and impressive list (in German) HERE.  Despite this extensive oeuvre, the available recordings on Amazon USA is rather skimpy - he wrote some wonderful music - my collection is small, as shown below.  Thoughts, comments, recommendations, etc. appreciated - Dave

Andreas Romberg was a German violinist and composer. Romberg was born in Vechta, in the Duchy of Oldenburg. He learned the violin from his musician father and first performed in public at the age of six. In addition to touring Europe, Romberg also joined the Münster Court Orchestra. Cellist and composer Bernhard Romberg was his cousin. He joined the court orchestra of the Prince Elector in Bonn in 1790, where he met the young Beethoven. He moved to Hamburg in 1793 due to wartime upheavals and joined the Hamburg Opera Orchestra. Romberg's first opera, 'Der Rabe', premiered there in 1794. He also composed his own setting of Messiah (Der Messias). After a time in Paris, Andreas settled in Hamburg where he became a central figure in the city's musical life. In 1815 he succeeded Louis Spohr as music director at the court of the Duke, in Gotha, Thuringia. He died there on 10 November 1821. (Source)

   

   

[SonicMan46]

Sammartini Brothers - Giovanni (c. 1770-1775) & Giuseppe (1695-1750) - not much in this thread on these two brothers from Milan - some discussion about 10 years ago w/ little information as to their recordings.  For me Giovanni, the longer-lived brother is more important in this thread because he spanned the Baroque and early Classical period, and contributed much to the early development of the galant and classical symphonic form (see quote below); whereas Giuseppe died the same year as JS Bach and thus his compositions are more in the late Baroque period (his short bio is HERE).  At present, I own 8 CDs of works by these brothers (2 are 3-CD sets) (reviews attached) - any fans of 'John & George Sammartini' - comments and recommendations?  Dave

Giovanni Sammartini was an Italian composer, violinist, organist, choirmaster and teacher. He counted Gluck among his students, and was highly regarded by younger composers including Johann Christian Bach. It has also been noted that many stylizations in Joseph Haydn's compositions are similar to those of Sammartini, although Haydn denied any such influence. Sammartini is especially associated with the formation of the concert symphony through both the shift from a brief opera-overture style and the introduction of a new seriousness and use of thematic development that prefigure Haydn and Mozart. Some of his works are described as galant, a style associated with Enlightenment ideals, while "the prevailing impression left by Sammartini's work... [is that] he contributed greatly to the development of a Classical style that achieved its moment of greatest clarity precisely when his long, active life was approaching its end".

Although Giovanni never strayed far from Milan, he came into contact with such notable composers as J.C. Bach, Mozart, Boccherini, and Gluck, the last of whom was his student from 1737 to 1741. Sammartini is mostly praised for his innovations in the development of the symphony, perhaps more so than the schools of thought in Mannheim and Vienna. His approach to symphonic composition was unique in that it drew influence from the trio sonata and concerto forms, in contrast to other composers during the time that modeled symphonies after the Italian overture. His symphonies were driven by rhythm and a clearer form, especially early sonata and rounded binary forms. His works never ceased to be inventive, and sometimes anticipated the direction of classical music such as the Sturm und Drang style. Czech composer Josef Mysliveček considered Sammartini to be "the father of Haydn's style," a popular sentiment that considerably enhanced Sammartini's reputation after his death.

Sammartini was a prolific composer, and his compositions include 4 operas, about 70 symphonies, ten concertos, and a substantial body of chamber music. As of 2004, approximately 450 known works by Sammartini have been recovered, although a fair amount of his music has been lost, especially sacred and dramatic works. Sammartini's works are referred to either by their opus number, or by the J-C numbers in the Jenkins-Churgin catalog. Newell Jenkins edited some of Sammartini's works, including a Magnificat, for the first time. Sammartini's music is generally divided into three stylistic periods: the early period (1724-1739), which reflects a mixture of Baroque and Preclassical forms, the middle period (1740-1758), which suggests Preclassical form, and the late period (1759-1774), that displays Classical influences. Sammartini's middle period is regarded as his most significant and pioneering, during which his compositions in the galant style of music foreshadow the Classical era to come. (Source)

     

[SonicMan46]

Stamitz, Carl (1745-1801) - no dedicated thread on this composer and just a lot of 'mentions' in the 'classical corner' - going through my modest collection at the moment; plus there seems to be more available on Spotify than I can find on Amazon USA or at Presto Music!

Carl was born in Mannheim (palace front shown below), eldest son to Johann Stamitz, Director of the famous Mannheim court orchestra - short bio of him quoted below; he wrote more than 50 symphonies, at least 38 symphonies concertantes and more than 60 concertos for violin, viola, viola d'amore, cello, clarinet, basset horn, flute, bassoon and other instruments. He also wrote a large volume of chamber music. Some of the clarinet and viola concertos that Stamitz composed are considered to be among the finest available from the period (Wiki).

At the moment, I own 9 discs of Carl's compositions (3 are in a box of his 'Clarinet Concertos') - believe that I enjoy his clarinet works the best; apparently when he lived in Paris, Stamitz began to cooperate with the Bohemian born clarinet virtuoso Joseph Beer (1744–1811), which proved fruitful for both Stamitz and Beer (Wiki link above); and reminiscent of some great clarinet works of several other composers, such as Mozart and Brahms.

So, any Stamitz fans (Carl and kin)?  If so, what else is available - any period instruments clarinet works?  Dave

Carl Philip Stamitz is the best-known representative of the second generation of composers who were active at the court of the Elector Palatine in Mannheim during the middle decades of the Eighteenth Century. He received his earliest musical training from his father, Johann Stamitz, Director of Instrumental Music and leader of the incomparable Mannheim court orchestra, and in the years following his father's early death, from the court musicians Christian Cannabich, Ignaz Holzbauer and Franz Xaver Richter. Extant orchestral registers for the period 1762-1770 list Carl Stamitz as a second violinist in the court orchestra, a position which enabled him to forge a brilliant performing technique as well as study the contemporary Mannheim repertoire.

Stamitz left Mannheim in 1770, travelling to Paris where, the following year, he was appointed court composer to Duke Louis of Noailles. In Paris he made contact with many leading musicians including Gossec, Leduc, Beer and Sieber, who published a number of his newest compositions, and, together with his brother Anton, was a regular performer at the Concert Spirituel. In the summer of 1772 Stamitz lived at Versailles and composed the first of several programme symphonies, La promenade royale. His journeys as a virtuoso took him to Vienna in 1772, to Frankfurt the following year and in 1774, to Augsburg, Vienna and Strasbourg where he published the six quartets op.14.

Stamitz's departure from Paris has not been accurately documented although the Pohl claimed that he was in London from 1777 until at least 1779. The Paris years were secure and relatively prosperous for Stamitz. After his departure, however, he never again held an important permanent position even during the years of his greatest international fame. In London he published many compositions, especially chamber works, and continued to style himself 'Composer to the Duke of Noailles'. Some time after 1779 he moved to The Hague where he appeared as a viola soloist in at least 28 concerts at the Court of William V of Orange including one on 23 November 1783 in which Beethoven (aged twelve) played the fortepiano.

During the next few years Stamitz travelled incessantly, presenting academies in Hamburg, Luebeck, Magdeburg, Leipzig and many other centres. He directed a performance of Handel's Messiah at the Cathedral in Berlin in 1786 and in 1787 was in Nuremberg for a performance of his musical allegory on the occasion of Blanchard's balloon ascent.

Stamitz's last years followed much the same pattern as the decade immediately following his departure from Paris. He travelled extensively, made occasional petitions for employment and sent his compositions as far afield as Wales and Russia in the hope that they would win him lucrative compensation. In the mid-1790s he served briefly as Kapellmeister and music teacher at the university in Mannheim but the income was insufficient for him to support his family. His wife of ten years, Maria Josepha (nee Pilz) died in January 1801 and Stamitz himself died in November the same year shortly before his planned trip to St Petersburg received official sanction. In spite of his early fame, his obvious gifts as a performer and composer and his sporadic experiments in alchemy, Carl Stamitz died so heavily in debt that his possessions had to auctioned to help pay his creditors. A printed catalogue of his music collection was printed for a separate auction in 1810 but the collection has long since disappeared.(Source)

 

   

     

[Brass Hole]

If so, what else is available - any period instruments clarinet works?  Dave

[SonicMan46]

Thanks for the suggestions above - will take a look on Amazon to see what's available - amazed that I left that post way back in May and you're the first responder - guess not much interest in this composer?  Dave

[Chaszz]

I can't find a button to start a new topic with. After a long affair with Romantic music, I've become re-interested in Classical era music after exhausting Romanticism, hopefully temporarily. Listening recently to some of Haydn's piano sonatas and trios and realizing how great they are, I will certainly be exploring more Haydn I haven't heard. But this post is largely on a different topic, Gluck.

It seems to me Gluck was writing his operas in a fully Classical style, particularly in the instrumental passages, at least some years before Haydn's rise. I am familiar with the general outline of the development of the Classical style, with C.P.E. Bach and Johann Christian Bach as waystations along the road. I don't know how Gluck fits into this. I have read topics about his plot reforms and simplifications of course, but not specifically musical stylistic changes. Of course I should be reading more about all this, Charles Rosen and so on, but have stopped in here for possibly a little quick education. How much did Gluck contribute to the development of the mature Classical style? Is his reputation in this regard less than it should be? Was he a favorite of Haydn and Mozart? Thanks.

[SonicMan46]

I can't find a button to start a new topic with. After a long affair with Romantic music, I've become re-interested in Classical era music after exhausting Romanticism, hopefully temporarily. Listening recently to some of Haydn's piano sonatas and trios and realizing how great they are, I will certainly be exploring more Haydn I haven't heard. But this post is largely on a different topic, Gluck.

It seems to me Gluck was writing his operas in a fully Classical style, particularly in the instrumental passages, at least some years before Haydn's rise. I am familiar with the general outline of the development of the Classical style, with C.P.E. Bach and Johann Christian Bach as waystations along the road. I don't know how Gluck fits into this. I have read topics about his plot reforms and simplifications of course, but not specifically musical stylistic changes. Of course I should be reading more about all this, Charles Rosen and so on, but have stopped in here for possibly a little quick education. How much did Gluck contribute to the development of the mature Classical style? Is his reputation in this regard less than it should be? Was he a favorite of Haydn and Mozart? Thanks.

Well, to start a 'New Topic' - see my attached annotated screen capture below (click to enlarge) - you simply need to open a sub-forum appropriate to your topic, then the 'New Topic' option will be present.  As to Christoph Willibald Gluck, I have nothing in my collection by this important 18th century Viennese composer but know his basic biography - I'm not an 'opera' or 'vocal' enthusiast, so don't collect these genres; he wrote little instrumental music (list HERE) - just looking on Amazon USA, there are pages of offerings but virtually all related to his vocal works.  Dave

[Chaszz]

I wanted to stay WITHIN Gurn's Claasical Corner, and not start a new topic outside it. So that's what I did. It seems to me that opera sometimes influences purely instrumental music, as with Meonteverdi and also with Wagner writing some of the best symphonic music of the late 19th c. in his interludes, and then influencing the development of the symphony with his harmonies. Something of the same nature seems to have happened with Gluck, but I'm not sure. Anyone else willing to comment on this?

[Chaszz]

 have a bit of supportive testimony from the Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, published in 1911, which is considered a classic edition of that work. This is from an article on Gluck co-written by Sir Donald Francis Tovey, a well-respected musicologist and musician:

'When he [Gluck] was inspired there was no question that he was the first and greatest writer of dramatic music before Mozart. To begin with, he could invent sublime melodies; and his power of producing great musical effects by the simplest means was nothing short of Handelian. Moreover, in his peculiar sphere he deserves the title generally accorded to Haydn of "father of modern orchestration." '

-https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Gluck,_Christoph_Willibald

"In his peculiar sphere" somewhat diminishes the impact of the remainder of the sentence, especially as many ears might tend to wander back and forth between orchestral music and opera and, being ears rather than brains, might not erect a barrier between those two forms of music such that achievement is one field has little or no bearing on achievement in the other. In fact, some composers have even been known to work in both. Proving that Gluck produced mature Classical style orchestrations BEFORE Haydn may be more difficult, but I will give it a try. The decade of the 1760s is what I think needs to be examined.

[Jo498]

Supposedly Handel quipped that his cook (who was also a singer) knew more counterpoint than Gluck... Gluck was of course hugely important for "modern opera" (i.e. Mozart, Cherubini, Beethoven, even Berlioz all of whom regarded him highly) but he wrote little instrumental music. The most important is probably the Don Juan ballet and the dance of the furies was also used elsewhere. (Another famous piece are the "blessed spirits" from the Orpheus opera that used to be a popular classical sampler piece in the 1960s.) The influence on instrumental music might be instrumentation to some extent although I am not sure of particular examples. (Gluck uses trombones for "sublime" music but this goes basically back to Monteverdi and the association is probably rooted in their use in church music.)

It seems quite hard today for Gluck to hold his ground between Mozart and rediscovered baroque opera (esp. Handel) but recall that even in Tovey's time 100 years ago, baroque opera was considered a historical curiosity whereas the three or so most famous ones by Gluck were played on stage. I think both Iphigenie operas are certainly worth a try (I find them superior to Orpheus & Eurydice) but one has to have some taste for opera.