Gurn's Classical Corner

Started by Gurn Blanston, February 22, 2009, 07:05:20 AM

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sTisTi

Quote from: Gabriel on March 26, 2009, 11:00:50 AM
I guess I will have to buy the CD very quickly... otherwise I won't have any chance of getting it! ;D
Yeah, I can already see the headlines: "NEW KROMMER CD SOLD OUT ON DAY OF RELEASE - PEOPLE QUEUING IN FRONT OF CD STORES"  ;D

Quote from: Gabriel on March 26, 2009, 11:00:50 AM
I can't suggest enough the marvelous string trio op. 96. Krommer was a lot more than his stupendous works for wind instruments. :)
Thanks, another disc in my shopping cart... :D
It's a pity we will probably never have the chance to hear the bulk of Krommer's vast output. Especially his mid-to-late period seems to have produced very interesting pieces. But hopefully, as this year is his 250th birthday, we might see a few new releases in the next months...
How about this disc?

It contains the Sinfonia concertante op. 70 for flute, clarinet, violin and orchestra and the Concertino op. 39 for various wind and string instruments. The samples sound interesting, especially the Sinfonia concertante.

Gabriel

Quote from: sTisTi on March 27, 2009, 09:42:57 AM
How about this disc?
It contains the Sinfonia concertante op. 70 for flute, clarinet, violin and orchestra and the Concertino op. 39 for various wind and string instruments. The samples sound interesting, especially the Sinfonia concertante.

It is a very fine disc. The star is clearly the playful Sinfonia concertante, with its substantial first movement and the very strange inclusion of Alla Polacca as fourth movement, preceding the finale. I wouldn't qualify it as a highlight of Krommer's output, but if you like his music it will certainly not disappoint you. The concertino has also some delightful moments: the Menuetto is really beautiful, and has a very humorous quote of "Ach du lieber Augustin".

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Gabriel on March 24, 2009, 02:31:29 PM
I would like to mention the piano concertos composed by Hyacinthe Jadin (1776-1800), a French composer who died unfortunately too young. Jadin is a composer whose music sounds incredibly Mozartian: beautiful ideas, excellent developments and an unexplainable nostalgic feeling even in major mode works. I have listened to two of his three piano concertos, and both of them would surely deserve a better consideration within this repertoire. Alas, the name of Jadin is seldom known, even among music lovers, and his works are even less often played.

The second piano concerto, in D minor, was composed in 1796; it is a very tragical work, with a first movement whose main motive sounds as a cry of inner despair. The luminous, peaceful second subject provides a fascinating contrast. The piano writing is quite particular; in parts, it doesn't remember me of any other composer of this era (for instance, towards the end of the movement there is a very original sort of bird song). The textures are as pure as they can be, which, curiously, reinforces the sadness of the music.

The third piano concerto, in A major, composed in 1798, is quite a different work. A bold one. Jadin decided to write a concerto in two movements instead of the usual three, and the first one is admirable in its idea: after an orchestral exposition of about three minutes, the piano enters, not for reexposing the subjects as it should normally be, but for "singing" a rather short recitative whose delicacy is worthy of the greatest admiration. When the piano exposes the subjects after the recitative, the effect is impressive: they sound as if they had never been played, with a freshness and a beautiful simplicity rarely achieved even during classicism. The second movement, on the other hand, presents very different virtues: in a very disguised way, Jadin presents music of popular inspiration.

I know just one recording of these works, in the label Forlane, conducted by Gérard Streletski and played by Wen-Ying Tseng in a modern piano. Even if it is not an ideal recording, it is a very enjoyable one (I'm sure it would work better with a fortepiano, but to have at least one recording is good news).

It sounds very tempting. Perhaps next month! ;D

Gabriel,
Thanks for introducing this most fascinating topic into the conversation. It is hard to come out of the Classical without some grasp on how the period changed the face of music by introducing and expanding the keyboard concerto into a major vehicle of the 19th and 20th centuries.

Before I add to your line of thought, first a reflection on Hyacinthe Jadin. I don't have any of his concerti yet, but I do have most of his solo keyboard music. His sonatas are wonderful! When we get to solo works I'll post some CD recs (there aren't many but they do include all of the sonatas). In any case, he is a name to remember when you are shopping around (well, how could you not remember "Hyacinthe" anyway? :) ).

Let me preface this by saying that Mozart was a freak of nature. His early concerti (up to #8) are pretty much standard fare that the best were turning out at that time. Everything from #9 onwards is in a league of its own that is scarcely matched even 150 years down the road. So when you look at the keyboard concerto from his time onward, you really need to put Mozart out of mind. Look instead at the "mainstream of music" and see how things fit together and don't say to yourself "yes, but he's no Mozart". Other than Beethoven, no one was a Mozart. :)

Giovanni Paisiello -
I became familiar with Paisiello as an opera composer during his residence in Vienna in the late 1780's. That was where his fame was built. So when I discovered that he had composed 8 keyboard concerti, I thought "well, yeah, but he's no Mozart... ::) ", but I went ahead and bought that Naxos disk anyway, since it also had a sinfonia and the Overture to "Proserpine" on it so I could hear a bit of his orchestral works. It is this one. Imagine my surprise when I heard the #4 in g minor! It is a splendid little concerto. Since describing music in words is beyond my talents, suffice to say it was most enjoyable, and #2 on there in F major is very good too.

Which led me to purchase this set by Pietro Spada. Although there doesn't appear to be any set played on fortepiano, this is an apt substitute, and I found it a very worthwhile expenditure. I see there is one other choice for a complete set, this one here by the English CO/Monetti, I haven't heard any of it. I would expect it to be well played too, although my experience with the ECO is all over the map!

More soon,
Cheers,
8)










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Listening to:
Levin / Beths / Bylsma - Haydn Trio in E for Piano & Strings #44 1st mvmt
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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: sTisTi on March 26, 2009, 08:17:11 AM
There's a new disc with 3 string quartets by Krommer due to be out in mid-April. It's by the Marcolini Quartet.



As an admirer of Krommer's music, I'm naturally tempted by the disc, but - how shall I put it - I'm not sure if the medium of the string quartet is the most suitable for the expression of his talents  ;)

Does anyone have an opinion about Krommer's String Quartets? Are they worth repeated listenings? I've never heard them mentioned before. Unfortunately, I haven't found sound samples either...

sTisTi,
Thanks for the heads up about this disk. Since, like the others here, I was reeled in by Krommer's wind music, but I actually did know he had written string music too, and that it was highly thought of, but I hadn't been able to really find any to listen to. So this mention not only found me some string quartets for starters, but also got some other recs like the string trio and even a piano quartet! Time to go fishing in foreign waters, I guess. :)

Oh, just as a rule of thumb when evaluating whether performers will be worth the while, if their resumés include items such as "member of Concerto Köln...", that weighs in huge on the balance sheet. :D

8)



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Listening to:
Levin / Beths / Bylsma - Haydn Trio in Eb for Piano & Strings #45 3rd mvmt
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

SonicMan46

#324
John Field (1782-1837) - Irish composer - check out BIO HERE - important influence on Chopin - transitional Classical-Romantic composer - I left the post below in the 'listening thread' but quickly became 'buried' - thought that a listing here might be of interest, not only for his piano works, but possibly a discussion of 'how to' perform his piano compositions, i.e. the appropriateness of using a fortepiano  vs. a modern piano - the Nocturnes seem to be his most well know works, and those performed by O'Connor on Telarc are excellent, but other options may be considered -  :D


Quote from: SonicMan on March 31, 2009, 02:20:10 PM
Chris, Dave, & George - I've had that Nocturnes disc for years, and the performance is wonderful - would not mind having more of these works that obviously were an important influence for Chopin; Miceal O'Rourke seems to be 'specializing' in this composer - added below are two other CDs that I own of Field's music performed by O'Rourke - not sure 'how' available these are at the moment, but both can certainly be recommended.

Now, another interesting question is that John Field's dates (1782-1837) place him in that fascinating transitional period of late classical-early Romantic periods, and of course the evolution of the piano from the forte to the more 'modern' pianos - curious if Field's Nocturnes have been performed on the fortepiano - have not checked myself yet, but others may already know?  Dave  :D

 

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan on March 31, 2009, 06:54:31 PM
John Field (1782-1837) - Irish composer - check out BIO HERE - important influence on Chopin - transitional Classical-Romantic composer - I left the thread below in the 'listening thread' but quickly became 'buried' - thought that a listing here might be of interest, not only for his piano works, but possibly a discussion of 'how to' perform his piano compositions, i.e. the appropriateness of using a fortepiano  vs. a modern piano - the Nocturnes seem to be his most well know works, and those performed by O'Conor on Telarc are excellent, but other options may be considered -  :D



Ah, one of my favorite "transitional" composers, Dave! I suppose it is true that, since he devised the form, his nocturnes are his premiere compositions, I grew to know Field due to his concerti, which I acquired the set of on Naxos (Frith) and then a lovely disk by Staier/Concerto Köln on fortepiano.

Even though the nocturnes were composed from rather early on until the end of his life (1837), I think that the appropriate instrument is a late era fortepiano like a Graf. Even though iron frame pianos appeared <>1830, they weren't generally distributed to the point where composers were taking full advantage of their potential until rather after Field's productive life was over. That said, I think the music would stand up well to a modern piano, and indeed, O'Conor (who has a great classical touch anyway) does wonderfully well with the solo works. By the time you get to a Graf or Erard, all the elements of a "modern" piano are in place anyway with the exception of the iron frame and some great refinements in escapements and checks. So the use of a modern piano on anything written post-Schubert doesn't have nearly the negative effect on me as it does on earlier music. I still don't believe that a full-blown 2009 concert grand is quite the right thing for music like Field's, but it won't distort the music nearly as much as it does to Mozart or Hummel, for example. Just my opinion... :)

Obviously, this is a topic I would like to see expanded. Unlike a lot of people on either side of the issue, I am rather more flexible. ;)

8)

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Listening to:
Tafelmusik / Lamon Bylsma (Cello) - RV 403 Concerto in D for Cello - Allegro - Andante e spiritoso - Allegro
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

SonicMan46

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 01, 2009, 06:50:38 AM
Ah, one of my favorite "transitional" composers, Dave! I suppose it is true that, since he devised the form, his nocturnes are his premiere compositions, I grew to know Field due to his concerti, which I acquired the set of on Naxos (Frith) and then a lovely disk by Staier/Concerto Köln on fortepiano......................

Just checking on the Amazon Marketplace - Chandos has released a 4-CD set of the Field Piano Concerti w/ Miceal O'Rourke for just $25!  Goin' to spin the one disc that I have already w/ this pianist performing two of these works, but may add the set to my 'to buy list'?  Great review on MusicWeb HERE:D


Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan on April 01, 2009, 08:58:30 AM
Just checking on the Amazon Marketplace - Chandos has released a 4-CD set of the Field Piano Concerti w/ Miceal O'Rourke for just $25!  Goin' to spin the one disc that I have already w/ this pianist performing two of these works, but may add the set to my 'to buy list'?  Great review on MusicWeb HERE:D



Man, that box looks interesting. And for a reasonable price ($25 on the Marketplace). I may go that direction, although I sure wish O'Rourke played a fortepiano... :-\ 

I saw that you had featured his disk of the 4 sonatas as being one you have too. What's your take on it? I only have sonata #1 in Eb, which is a nice work indeed, and would like a set. That disk is very tempting, but I haven't heard much about it from anyone. :)

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

SonicMan46

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 01, 2009, 09:47:13 AM
Man, that box looks interesting. And for a reasonable price ($25 on the Marketplace). I may go that direction, although I sure wish O'Rourke played a fortepiano... :-\ 

I saw that you had featured his disk of the 4 sonatas as being one you have too. What's your take on it? I only have sonata #1 in Eb, which is a nice work indeed, and would like a set. That disk is very tempting, but I haven't heard much about it from anyone. :)

Yes, I'd loved to hear some of Field's works on the fortepiano, but he was just 18 y/o in 1800 when he composed the first 3 'piano sonatas' on this disc (the presumed 4th came later, first published in St. Petersburg) dedicated to his teacher, Muzio Clementi; these sonatas are short (12 to 15 1/2 minutes each) and in 2 movements w/o a slow one.  I'm listening to that disc @ the moment as I type just to remind me - these works are just delightful harking back to Haydn & Clementi (in his younger days).  O'Rourke plays w/ a deft touch, the sound of the piano is up front, and I have no problem w/ the playing on a modern piano (the recording was done in London, St. Jude's Church, in 1989; the piano used is not described in the liner notes).  I would predict that you would enjoy this disc - plus, if you are about to make an upcoming BRO order, the CD is available THERE at the moment for $5!

Dave  :D

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan on April 01, 2009, 02:11:00 PM
Yes, I'd loved to hear some of Field's works on the fortepiano, but he was just 18 y/o in 1800 when he composed the first 3 'piano sonatas' on this disc (the presumed 4th came later, first published in St. Petersburg) dedicated to his teacher, Muzio Clementi; these sonatas are short (12 to 15 1/2 minutes each) and in 2 movements w/o a slow one.  I'm listening to that disc @ the moment as I type just to remind me - these works are just delightful harking back to Haydn & Clementi (in his younger days).  O'Rourke plays w/ a deft touch, the sound of the piano is up front, and I have no problem w/ the playing on a modern piano (the recording was done in London, St. Jude's Church, in 1989; the piano used is not described in the liner notes).  I would predict that you would enjoy this disc - plus, if you are about to make an upcoming BRO order, the CD is available THERE at the moment for $5!

Dave  :D

Ah, thanks for coming back with that, Dave. Well, for that price, it is hard not to go for it. I do like the Eb one that I have, and it is on modern piano too (Ian Hobson - "London Piano School" vol 2). In any case, good players with the right attitude (for example, Ingrid Haebler plying Mozart) can make a modern piano sound much... less so if they leave the damned pedals alone and use a light touch. :)

8)
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Valentino

I was just listening to Mozart's Adagio and fugue K.546 performed by the Hagen Quartett (I love that band!), and was thinking two thoughts (not at the same time, I'm male):
1) Man, this is heavy! And dark!
2) Do we have examples of other composers in the classical era composing such/similar/comparable "baroque studies"?
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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Valentino on April 02, 2009, 01:29:57 PM
I was just listening to Mozart's Adagio and fugue K.546 performed by the Hagen Quartett (I love that band!), and was thinking two thoughts (not at the same time, I'm male):
1) Man, this is heavy! And dark!
2) Do we have examples of other composers in the classical era composing such/similar/comparable "baroque studies"?

Ah, wonderful piece, isn't it? Well, I wouldn't say no (never say never) but by and large, classical era composers avoided that sort of thing like the plague. Mozart is rather unique in that way because he was part of the Sunday Afternoon Salon held by Baron von Sweiten and became quite enamored of fugues. He wrote quite a few of them, and orchestrated several more (like 6 Bach fugues from the WTC arranged for string trio (K 404a) for which he wrote a prelude for each). I would like to hear if anyone knows of any NOT by Mozart. :)

8)
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Gabriel

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 02, 2009, 01:38:56 PM
Ah, wonderful piece, isn't it? Well, I wouldn't say no (never say never) but by and large, classical era composers avoided that sort of thing like the plague. Mozart is rather unique in that way because he was part of the Sunday Afternoon Salon held by Baron von Sweiten and became quite enamored of fugues. He wrote quite a few of them, and orchestrated several more (like 6 Bach fugues from the WTC arranged for string trio (K 404a) for which he wrote a prelude for each). I would like to hear if anyone knows of any NOT by Mozart. :)

8)

Emanuel Aloys Förster (1748-1823) arranged even more fugues from the WTC than Mozart, Gurn. There is a recording by the Emerson String Quartet.

Förster is a very unknown name from the classical era, but I know some excellent chamber music by him. I bought in an offer some years ago the double CD recorded by Les Adieux for NCA containing 4 string quintet works, which rank easily among the best of classicism and wouldn't be indifferent to anyone who likes Mozart's works in this area.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Gabriel on April 03, 2009, 07:49:50 AM
Emanuel Aloys Förster (1748-1823) arranged even more fugues from the WTC than Mozart, Gurn. There is a recording by the Emerson String Quartet.

Förster is a very unknown name from the classical era, but I know some excellent chamber music by him. I bought in an offer some years ago the double CD recorded by Les Adieux for NCA containing 4 string quintet works, which rank easily among the best of classicism and wouldn't be indifferent to anyone who likes Mozart's works in this area.

Ah! Thanks for that info, Gabriel. Förster is just a name to me, unfortunately, since I haven't heard any of his music. He does appear, I believe, on the list of attendees at von Sweiten's though. I will look for that disk, it sounds right up my alley so to speak. I have a few disks by Les Adieux (mostly on DHM) and really enjoy their playing. Who knows? Maybe today will be my lucky day! :)

8)

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Listening to:
Schubert: Fortepiano Works - Lambert Orkis - D 946 #2 Klavierstück  in Eb for Fortepiano - Allegretto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

SonicMan46

Gurn & Gabriel - just put in an order for that Field box of the orchestral piano works; listened to the single CD that I pictured previously the other night, and enjoyed the playing, the orchestra, and the sound (and @ a great price)!

Was also interested in the comments on Emanuel Aloys Förster (1748-1823) - thought that I had one disc of this composer's music, but no (checked my database and the composer I own is Josef Foerster!) - however, my first check was at BRO, and to my surprise, they did have the 2-CD set of Förster's Quintets for $14 - so put in an order, and hope to enjoy on their arrival!  Dave  :D

Valentino

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 02, 2009, 01:38:56 PM
Ah, wonderful piece, isn't it? Well, I wouldn't say no (never say never) but by and large, classical era composers avoided that sort of thing like the plague. Mozart is rather unique in that way because he was part of the Sunday Afternoon Salon held by Baron von Sweiten and became quite enamored of fugues. He wrote quite a few of them, and orchestrated several more (like 6 Bach fugues from the WTC arranged for string trio (K 404a) for which he wrote a prelude for each). I would like to hear if anyone knows of any NOT by Mozart. :)

8)
The Hagens and L'Archibudelli both have recorded Mozart preludes and fugues; thise are in my modest vaults (or on my harddisks) somewhere.
I have to check up on Förster.
Maybe I'm not a true classicist after all, this longing for fugues must be the engineer in me. Ah, the good clean maths of a fugue!
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
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Gabriel

#336
Quote from: SonicMan on April 03, 2009, 09:03:17 AM
Gurn & Gabriel - just put in an order for that Field box of the orchestral piano works; listened to the single CD that I pictured previously the other night, and enjoyed the playing, the orchestra, and the sound (and @ a great price)!

Was also interested in the comments on Emanuel Aloys Förster (1748-1823) - thought that I had one disc of this composer's music, but no (checked my database and the composer I own is Josef Foerster!) - however, my first check was at BRO, and to my surprise, they did have the 2-CD set of Förster's Quintets for $14 - so put in an order, and hope to enjoy on their arrival!  Dave  :D

Dave: you will love the Field set. I bought it last year, and it is a winner. At such a price, even more. If there is a corpus of late classical piano concerti to put besides Beethoven (but so different!) it is Field's. The most famous of all, number two, is an almost offensively ignored masterpiece. But there are wonders to discover everywhere. I'm particularly fond of the "music box" Adagio in the fourth concerto: great music, so simple, so delicate and so weird at the same time. And so "silent", above all. Approaching silence through music, I'd say.

You were also lucky to find Förster's set: when I bought it, I did it because it was offered at a ridiculously low price. When I discovered the jewels that were inside, I guess I thought it was one of my best purchases ever, considering a price/quality ratio. You will not regret it and you will see that, as Gurn says, van Swieten's influence was quite important in "feeding" classical composers with the wonderful music of Johann Sebastian Bach.

Quote from: Valentino on April 03, 2009, 02:20:19 PM
Maybe I'm not a true classicist after all, this longing for fugues must be the engineer in me. Ah, the good clean maths of a fugue!

Valentino, you should head for Antonín Rejcha's music. If somebody, in the late classical period, knew how to write counterpoint and fugues, enjoy formal experiments, and surprise with technical inventions, it was him, and sometimes even more radically than Beethoven himself (for example, he insisted that quarter-tones could be used successfully in music, and this in the early nineteenth century). He wrote a lot of truly great music that is almost ignored today. As it was the case with Haydn in the first half of the twentieth century, it is possible that Rejcha's music is waiting for the time of his real discovery. I've developed a real interest towards Rejcha during the last years, and my admiration doesn't cease to grow at any work of his that I come to know.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Valentino on April 03, 2009, 02:20:19 PM
The Hagens and L'Archibudelli both have recorded Mozart preludes and fugues; thise are in my modest vaults (or on my harddisks) somewhere.
I have to check up on Förster.
Maybe I'm not a true classicist after all, this longing for fugues must be the engineer in me. Ah, the good clean maths of a fugue!

Yes, I have the L'Archibudelli version. Also several others (particularly like Grumiaux's), but hey... :) 

I made good use of Sonic's link and bought the Förster this afternoon, along with a 2 disk set of Kraus that I will doubtless be raving about soon.

As for loving a good fugue, I can match you there, I guess. Just something about them that it doesn't seem surprised to read how Mozart got so enthusiastic about them. :)

8)
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Gurn Blanston

With all this talk about fugal writing, I thought I would point out that the fugue never disappeared from sacred music, it was only secular music where it hid its head for a while. Sacred music was singularly unchanged by the advent of the Classical Era. Other than the reforms of Joseph II which minimized the length of the mass, and pressed for less adornment, the actual music maintained a lot of its Baroque antecedents. Including a judiciously placed fugue here and there. One couldn't be considered a composer of sacred music without being able to compose a fugue! :)

8)
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Valentino

That is of course the case, Gurn. Just now however I cannot remember any fugue in Haydn's masses, but that could be down to the time of day (or night).

Gabriel, coud you recommend a Rejcha disk or two?
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