Gurn's Classical Corner

Started by Gurn Blanston, February 22, 2009, 07:05:20 AM

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Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on April 10, 2009, 06:12:30 PM
Off-topic: Curiously on Monday I received a disc with Kenneth Slowick playing the fortepiano (a Rodney J. Regier, Freeport, ME, 1985 after Conrad Graf). He established his reputation as a cellist and viola da gamba player; but here his playing on the pianoforte is excellent. He and Max van Egmond built an extraordinary disc. The session producer was Peter Watchorn.

Interesting, Antoine. It is not so unusual for someone to play more than one instrument, but to play 2 as disparate as cello and fortepiano probably is. I understand that the modern violinist, Arthur Grumiaux was a concert-class pianist as well as a violinist, so I guess it isn't unheard of. Cool nonetheless. And that disk looks interesting too. :)

8)

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Listening to:
Anner Bylsma / Kenneth Slowik / Bob van Asperen - Boccherini G 073 #2 Fugue in F for 2 Cellos - Allegro
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Antoine Marchand

#401
I recall the name of Jérôme Hantaï. He is, as we know, a viola da gamba player, but he has at least two discs as a fortepianist (some piano sonatas and piano trios, I think). I don't know those discs, but some reviews have not been benevolent with him. Here for example: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9223. In any case I would like to listen to those discs because some critics or reviewers simply heat the pianoforte.

P.S.: Some days ago I listened to a disc with songs composed by Beethoven, with Hantaï on the fortepiano. Very disappointing indeed, but I could blame the horrible acoustics in the local store.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on April 10, 2009, 06:33:43 PM
I recall the case of Jérôme Hantaï. He is, as we know, a viola da gamba player, but has at least two discs as a fortepianist (some piano sonatas and piano trios, I think). I don't know those discs, but the reviews have not been benevolent with him.

Yikes, I hadn't heard that. What a blow for him. :o   Well, there aren't enough good gambists in the world, and we are overrun with keyboardists, so that should tell him something. :)

8)

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Listening to:
Boccherini Op. 23 - Sextets - Nos. 1,2,5 - Chiara Banchini - Ensemble 415 - Boccherini Op 23 #1 Sextet in Eb for Strings 3rd mvmt - Minuetto
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

springrite

I do have a recording of Hantai playing the keyboard. It isn't bad at all. But considering the competition, it won't be collector's item.

Speaking of Gamba players, I should put in a plug for my friend Jay Bernfeld. He is a remarkable musician. His first love is really opera. He has been known to sing mostly baroque or pre-baroque repertoire. But it is his gamba playing that is so impressive. I have many of his recordings of course. But I have only heard him play once, that being the first and only time we have met. I was unable to make it to his concert in SF. To my surprise, he drove to Los Angeles after the concert and showed up at my door the next day. He played a recital at my home just for me. I was deeply moved. We shared a long conversation about music, interestingly mostly about opera. His favorite is Tebaldi. I gave him about a dozen opera recordings as gift.

Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: springrite on April 10, 2009, 07:00:10 PM
I do have a recording of Hantai playing the keyboard. It isn't bad at all. But considering the competition, it won't be collector's item.

Yes, there are some damned fine fortepianists out there nowadays. And of course, it is a different instrument than the modern piano so even a great modern pianist would need some time to learn it. But the competition is stiff, as you say. :)

QuoteSpeaking of Gamba players, I should put in a plug for my friend Jay Bernfeld. He is a remarkable musician. His first love is really opera. He has been known to sing mostly baroque or pre-baroque repertoire. But it is his gamba playing that is so impressive. I have many of his recordings of course. But I have only heard him play once, that being the first and only time we have met. I was unable to make it to his concert in SF. To my surprise, he drove to Los Angeles after the concert and showed up at my door the next day. He played a recital at my home just for me. I was deeply moved. We shared a long conversation about music, interestingly mostly about opera. His favorite is Tebaldi. I gave him about a dozen opera recordings as gift.

Now, that would be cool! To have a really good gambist come over to the house and give a private recital. I'm jealous!  Very nice. :)

8)



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Listening to:
Boccherini Op. 23 - Sextets - Nos. 1,2,5 - Chiara Banchini - Ensemble 415 - Boccherini Op 23 #2 Sextet in Bb for Strings 3rd mvmt - Minuetto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

SonicMan46

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 10, 2009, 07:29:12 AM
........ Generally I am quite fond of his music and ought to get more of it. I have been looking at that disk that Dave mentioned, the sonatas for fortepiano & horn. I suspect that's a peach. :)

Hello Gurn - just returned home from an overnight in Charlotte (Mint Museum had a nice exhibit to benefit New Orleans - a substantial collection, nearly 100 pieces, from their Art Museum, traveling to various cities) -  :D

But, the disc mentioned of Czerny's Horn & Fortepiano Works is fascinating - have it spinning now just as an aural reminder to me -  ;) ;D

Geoffrey Govier is playing a fortepiano built in 1839 by the Viennese maker Johann Streicher; there is no iron incorporated into the case according to the liner notes; the instrument has been restored, as expected.  Andrew Clark plays a 'valved' horn on the first piece (see back cover below) - apparently intentionally written for that 'new' instrument; Czerny then seem to go back to the 'natural' horn which was used on the remainder of the disc (noticed the difference in Opus numbers reflecting that shift of instruments).

Most of the CD consists of the Brillante Fantasie, Op. 339, Nos. 1-3 - these were written ca. 1836 and were based on the 'melodies' of Franz Schubert, presumably considered more of a compliment to a composer back in those days.  Overall, a fabulous disc and (just checked) still available @ BRO for $5!

As you already mentioned, the guy wrote about a 1000 compositions of ALL types!  Wiki has a lising of over 800 Opus Nos. HERE w/ a number not ascribed.  Much of this work seems to be un- or under-recorded, so any recommendations would be of interest - thanks all - Dave  :)

 

Gabriel

I'm following your opinions about Czerny's music, which is quite unknown to me. :)

I have good news for Krommer fans. A third recording of the string trio op. 96 has just been released by the small Diligence label, together with the Flute quartet op. 92 and (as far as I know, a world première) the three Hungarian Dances op. 89. They are played by Nicole Tamestit & La Compagnie.

As a general view, they are very good performances; the main problem is that I feel the acoustics as a bit dry, but this situation doesn't bother too much the listening experience. The Hungarian Dances in the CD are one of the most evident examples available of national flavour to be found in the classical period; and concerning Hungarian music during these years, as evident as probably no other work I know excepting the Hungarian Dances for keyboard, op. 23, by Hummel.

A delightful release.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan on April 11, 2009, 12:48:27 PM
Hello Gurn - just returned home from an overnight in Charlotte (Mint Museum had a nice exhibit to benefit New Orleans - a substantial collection, nearly 100 pieces, from their Art Museum, traveling to various cities) -  :D

But, the disc mentioned of Czerny's Horn & Fortepiano Works is fascinating - have it spinning now just as an aural reminder to me -  ;) ;D

Geoffrey Govier is playing a fortepiano built in 1839 by the Viennese maker Johann Streicher; there is no iron incorporated into the case according to the liner notes; the instrument has been restored, as expected.  Andrew Clark plays a 'valved' horn on the first piece (see back cover below) - apparently intentionally written for that 'new' instrument; Czerny then seem to go back to the 'natural' horn which was used on the remainder of the disc (noticed the difference in Opus numbers reflecting that shift of instruments).

Most of the CD consists of the Brillante Fantasie, Op. 339, Nos. 1-3 - these were written ca. 1836 and were based on the 'melodies' of Franz Schubert, presumably considered more of a compliment to a composer back in those days.  Overall, a fabulous disc and (just checked) still available @ BRO for $5!

As you already mentioned, the guy wrote about a 1000 compositions of ALL types!  Wiki has a lising of over 800 Opus Nos. HERE w/ a number not ascribed.  Much of this work seems to be un- or under-recorded, so any recommendations would be of interest - thanks all - Dave  :)

 

Thanks for the rundown on that disk, Dave. I hadn't found any reviews on it to even know what was on there. I do have Govier playing a disk of Dussek sonatas, which is also available at BRO, BTW. It is really quite good. Makes me want to pick up that disk of his Haydn sonatas too... :)  I guess my next BRO order will have to include the Czerny. Damn, that list just gets longer and longer. Don't you realize that i have some Haydn string quartets to save up for now? :D

8)

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Listening to:
Boccherini: Quartets - Consortium Classicum - Quartet for clarinet, flute, horn & bassoon in F major, G. 263/2 (arranged by Othin Van den Broek): No. 3, Menuetto (trio)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Gabriel on April 11, 2009, 04:46:56 PM
I'm following your opinions about Czerny's music, which is quite unknown to me. :)

You might start out with a disk of fortepiano sonatas, Gabriel. He really is quite good (as you would expect from a long time Beethoven student).

QuoteI have good news for Krommer fans. A third recording of the string trio op. 96 has just been released by the small Diligence label, together with the Flute quartet op. 92 and (as far as I know, a world première) the three Hungarian Dances op. 89. They are played by Nicole Tamestit & La Compagnie.

As a general view, they are very good performances; the main problem is that I feel the acoustics as a bit dry, but this situation doesn't bother too much the listening experience. The Hungarian Dances in the CD are one of the most evident examples available of national flavour to be found in the classical period; and concerning Hungarian music during these years, as evident as probably no other work I know excepting the Hungarian Dances for keyboard, op. 23, by Hummel.

A delightful release.

Somehow I think that Paris must have a better selection of classical music than Nacogdoches, TX has... :)

I will definitely give that disk a try if it comes available in the States. Or if the dollar strengthens vis-a-vis the Euro...  I already didn't have those works when you guys were talking about them earlier, and this one has the added bonus of the Hungarian Dances, a genre which has always pleased me no end. I love Rom music, real or imagined.  :)

8)



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Listening to:
Boccherini: Quartets - Consortium Classicum - Quartet for clarinet, flute, horn & bassoon in C major, G. 262/3 (arranged by Othon Van den Broek): No. 1, Allegro con moto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Interrelationships and influences between composers -

The recent post on Czerny (student of Beethoven, teacher of Liszt) reminded me on an interest I pursued a few years ago. And disappointed me at the same time due to my failure to write things down and not foresee that my memory would not always be the extraordinary tool it once was. ::)  In any case, the topic was direct relationships and musical influences between composers. Not in the sense of "he had to have heard X's work..." but rather "he knew X and learned from him or taught him...".

As an example: when Mozart was in Paris as an 8 year old wunderkind, he met Schobert and played his music with Schobert right there. His early violin/keyboard sonatas are in this French style directly influenced by Schobert. And a few months later, he met and spent a great deal of time with J.C. Bach, who again was a big influence on the early works. The galant style of much of Mozart's works up to 1772 or so can be directly attributed to the London Bach.

I wrote a long post on this topic in the old forum and I will look it up because I find it interesting, and you may too. But if you have any interesting examples (like Reicha and Beethoven), please post them here. It is amazing how this community was so tight, in a day and time when communication and travel were not what they are now. :)

8)

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Listening to:
Harnoncourt - Haydn: The Seven Last Phrases of Christ on the Cross -  - The Seven Last Phrases of Christ on the Cross: III. "Führwahr, ich sag'es dir"
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

SonicMan46

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 12, 2009, 08:36:41 AM
Interrelationships and influences between composers -

The recent post on Czerny (student of Beethoven, teacher of Liszt) reminded me on an interest I pursued a few years ago. And disappointed me at the same time due to my failure to write things down and not foresee that my memory would not always be the extraordinary tool it once was. ::)  In any case, the topic was direct relationships and musical influences between composers. Not in the sense of "he had to have heard X's work..." but rather "he knew X and learned from him or taught him...".

Of course, at the Baroque-Classical transition were the Bach sons & their father; at the other end, one good example would be Ferdinand Ries (1784-1838) - Wiki Bio HERE - Beethoven was a major influence; both composers were born in Bonn; Ries' father, Franz Anton (1755-1846) was a violin virtuoso in the Bonn court orchestra, and taught the young Beethoven to play violin, and also gave lessons in violin & piano to his son.  The younger Ries ended up in Vienna, and over 4 years worked for Beethoven as a copyist and secretary, receiving piano lessons as compensation.  He composed much music, and his early works were strongly influenced by Beethoven; "He ........ left eight symphonies, a violin concerto and nine piano concertos, and numerous other works in many genres, including 26 string quartets", plus plenty of chamber and other piano works.

I've really enjoyed Ries' music over the years, and have obtained quite a bit, mostly on the CPO label; for those who may want to explore this composer and depending on your interests, below is 'what' I currently own - and I can't say that I dislike any of this music - the guy was good!

Complete Symphonies w/ Howard Griffiths & Surcher Kammerorchester on CPO - includes 8 symphonies recorded from 1997-1002; 4 CD box set.
Clarinet Sonatas & Clarinet Trio w/ Dieter Klocker; Armin Fromm on cello & Thomas Duis on piano - CPO; recorded 2003-4.
Flute Quartets w/ John Littlefield on flute; violin, viola, & cello the other instruments; on Naxos from 2006.
Piano Quartets w/ Andreas Frolich on piano; same strings, as above; CPO, recorded in 2002.
Piano Quintet w/ Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet; also includes similar work by Franz Limmer; on Brilliant, 2003.
Piano Trios w/ Mendelssohn Trio Berlin; again from CPO, dated 2004.
Septet & Octet w/ Linos Ensemble; CPO from 2002.
String Quartets, Vol. 1 w/ Schuppanizigh Quartett; CPO, 2004 - BOY, only 2 of 26!  Not sure 'how many' of the SQs have been recorded?

Hmmm - no Piano Concertos & a bunch of SQs missing; will appreciate comments on other options & 'new' additions - Dave  :)





SonicMan46

Well, a little surprised that no posts have been made to this thread in the last 5 days since the last one that I left!  And no comments at all on Ries, an excellent composer pertinent to the questions raised by Gurn concerning composer influences?  :-\

But, I'll bring up another Viennese 'transitional' composer, Emanuel Aloys Förster (1748-1823); he was born in the county of Glatz, Silesia, and the details of his early life and musical education seem obscure, athough he spent some time in Prague; in the mid-to later 1770s, he arrived in Vienna, and was active as a teacher, composer, and a member of a quartet until his death; thus, he spent nearly 50 years in Vienna and was pretty much a 'freelance' muscian - boy, how well and how many of the other composers of that LONG time period did he know?  Is there a BIO?

Apparently, Förster was a prolific composer with a main interest in chamber works - right up my alley!  :D

He wrote numerous works for piano, including a sextet & octet; four string quintets (including the works on the CD shown below), and 48 string quartets!  Apparently, few of his works have been published or recorded - yet another lost soul of that era - just sad -  :'(

My first experience to this composer are the works for String Quintet w/ the Les Adieux, apparently a group who are specializing in the works of these 'transitional' composers of the late 18th & early 19th centuries up to about 1840 (hey - what a period of interest for me!) - just listening to this disc for the first time - not sure what else is available for this composer, but I'd like to hear from others, please -  :)

 

Gurn Blanston

Hey, Dave,
No, I've been a bit under the weather for a few days, better now though. :)

I would be delighted to expand on Ries in a bit, I have a fair bit of his music and enjoy it.

I have, however, with uncanny accuracy in re your choices, received these disks yesterday and today:




As you say, the Förster is a wonder. I have only listened to the first disk so far, but that fantasia in d is just super. I was intrigued by the statement in the notes that the manuscript wasn't published because it was too technically difficult for the technology of the time. Something we don't often take into consideration.

The Boccherini disk was a great surprise for me. I have been watching this (OOP) disk for a long time, but the price was always prohibitive. Then I saw it for $7.49 at the Marketplace. The other 2 copies were $55 and $132 respectively, so I was suspicious, especially since it was advertised as "like new, only lacking shrink wrap". But I got it anyway, and guess what? It was "like new, only lacking shrink wrap"!! Even the jewel case is shiny bright, and the disk didn't even have a fingerprint on it!  I am giving it a first listen right now. First impression? This ain't your mother's Boccherini! These were his last works, and they were serious, intricate, beautiful music. And Ensemble 415 is, as always, impeccable. If you run into a deal on it, don't hesitate!

The Kraus is one I have been looking forward to. BRO have it, and you should like it, I think. We really need to give Kraus some airing. We have talked about the symphonies in the past (get 'em!), and I have the string quartets and fortepiano sonatas (Brautigam). These disks are the violin and fortepiano sonatas, and a piano trio, along with the arrangement of the Eb violin sonata for solo keyboard. Excellent disks! :)

And finally, as we discussed earlier, the complete (4) piano sonatas of John Field. I haven't listened to this one yet, so I will have to wait until tomorrow or Sunday to comment on them.

It was a great week for new music!  :D

8)

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Listening to:
Ensemble 415 - Boccherini: Quintettes avec deux altos - Luigi Boccherini - Op. 60/5 : I Allegro con moto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan on April 12, 2009, 10:24:57 AM
Of course, at the Baroque-Classical transition were the Bach sons & their father; at the other end, one good example would be Ferdinand Ries (1784-1838) - Wiki Bio HERE - Beethoven was a major influence; both composers were born in Bonn; Ries' father, Franz Anton (1755-1846) was a violin virtuoso in the Bonn court orchestra, and taught the young Beethoven to play violin, and also gave lessons in violin & piano to his son.  The younger Ries ended up in Vienna, and over 4 years worked for Beethoven as a copyist and secretary, receiving piano lessons as compensation.  He composed much music, and his early works were strongly influenced by Beethoven; "He ........ left eight symphonies, a violin concerto and nine piano concertos, and numerous other works in many genres, including 26 string quartets", plus plenty of chamber and other piano works.

I've really enjoyed Ries' music over the years, and have obtained quite a bit, mostly on the CPO label; for those who may want to explore this composer and depending on your interests, below is 'what' I currently own - and I can't say that I dislike any of this music - the guy was good!

Complete Symphonies w/ Howard Griffiths & Surcher Kammerorchester on CPO - includes 8 symphonies recorded from 1997-1002; 4 CD box set.
Clarinet Sonatas & Clarinet Trio w/ Dieter Klocker; Armin Fromm on cello & Thomas Duis on piano - CPO; recorded 2003-4.
Flute Quartets w/ John Littlefield on flute; violin, viola, & cello the other instruments; on Naxos from 2006.
Piano Quartets w/ Andreas Frolich on piano; same strings, as above; CPO, recorded in 2002.
Piano Quintet w/ Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet; also includes similar work by Franz Limmer; on Brilliant, 2003.
Piano Trios w/ Mendelssohn Trio Berlin; again from CPO, dated 2004.
Septet & Octet w/ Linos Ensemble; CPO from 2002.
String Quartets, Vol. 1 w/ Schuppanizigh Quartett; CPO, 2004 - BOY, only 2 of 26!  Not sure 'how many' of the SQs have been recorded?

Hmmm - no Piano Concertos & a bunch of SQs missing; will appreciate comments on other options & 'new' additions - Dave  :)






Yes, a perfect example of influence. Oddly, other than the symphonies that we have in common, I have the piano sonatas and concertos rather than the chamber music that you have. An amazing divergence, given that 75% of my collection is chamber music. :)  The concertos are available on Naxos, and certainly worth picking up. And the sonatas are on CPO (1 disk that I have), and quite interesting. Unlike the symphonies, the sonatas are all Ries and little Beethoven. I would also add the clarinet trio, which I have on a Naxos disk with Beethoven's Op 38, which is his own arrangement of his Septet for clarinet trio. So, a doubly interesting disk. :)

Ries spent nearly the entire second half of his life in London, promoting his own and Beethoven's music (he brokered many of Beethoven's publisher deals, for example), and at some point in time, something occurred (what, exactly, it was, is not known) which caused a rift between the 2 of them. In any case, when listening to Ries' excellent symphonies, there is no doubt who his teacher was... ;)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

karlhenning


jhar26

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on March 10, 2009, 10:46:49 PM
Very interesting post, Gurn.  I have often wondered about this...  When do you stop using harpsichord and start using piano?  The practice seems to be any "Classical" work, but - as you have aptly pointed out - this runs into problems.  What about volume indications or the lack thereof?  Take Haydn's keyboard concerto in D, H. 23:11 - Pinnock and Koopman both seem to be of the notion that this is a harpsichord piece.  I assume this is do to a lack of crescendos/decrescendos and volume indications?
Well, it may be a harpsichord piece, but it sounds much better when played on a piano to my ears.
Martha doesn't signal when the orchestra comes in, she's just pursing her lips.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: jhar26 on April 18, 2009, 04:01:35 PM
Well, it may be a harpsichord piece, but it sounds much better when played on a piano to my ears.

I prefer it on the fortepiano myself. According to what I have read, and also to what sounds best to ME, it IS intended for the fortepiano because of the written dynamics, just as Sorin says. And they are written into the autograph. Of course, this was right in the transitional time when a lot of works were claimed as being "for fortepiano or harpsichord", but that is just pandering to the audience, really, since the intentions of the composer can't be properly reproduced on the harpsichord. As for Pinnock and Koopman, well, they are both harpsichordists, what else would they say? :D

8)

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Listening to:
Haydn: The Complete Overtures - Manfred Huss - Haydn Sinfonietta Wien - Philemon und Baucis: Overture in d
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

karlhenning

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 18, 2009, 04:12:04 PM
. . . Of course, this was right in the transitional time when a lot of works were claimed as being "for fortepiano or harpsichord", but that is just pandering to the audience, really, since the intentions of the composer can't be properly reproduced on the harpsichord.

Pandering to the audience, or realistic expectations of how the homes of your market are musically equipped? . . .

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 18, 2009, 04:28:16 PM
Pandering to the audience, or realistic expectations of how the homes of your market are musically equipped? . . .

Absolutely right, Doctor H. However, by 1800, the expectation was not as realistic, but the tradition continued... :)

8)

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Listening to:
Haydn: The Complete Overtures - Manfred Huss - Haydn Sinfonietta Wien - Die Sieben Letzten Worte Unseres Erlösers Am Kreuze: Introduzione in d
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

karlhenning

Even "grandfathering" has a history, Gurn  8)