Author Topic: Gurn's Classical Corner  (Read 569662 times)

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Offline Gabriel

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #460 on: May 02, 2009, 11:10:40 PM »
Laval plays on modern piano, Que. (And considering the artists in the Arts recording, it should be modern piano too).

Offline Que

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #461 on: May 02, 2009, 11:15:31 PM »
Laval plays on modern piano, Que. (And considering the artists in the Arts recording, it should be modern piano too).

 :'(

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #462 on: May 03, 2009, 02:48:46 AM »
:'(

Yes, the Arts set is played on modern piano, Que, but IMO it is recorded in a totally lovely way and, you know, I am a HIP dude too.

Here is possible to get some idea about the set:

http://artsmusic.de/templates/tyReleasesD.php?id=667&label=blue%20line&topic=arts-releases-detail

Offline Que

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #463 on: May 03, 2009, 02:54:42 AM »
Yes, the Arts set is played on modern piano, Que, but IMO it is recorded in a totally lovely way and, you know, I am a HIP dude too.

Here is possible to get some idea about the set:

http://artsmusic.de/templates/tyReleasesD.php?id=667&label=blue%20line&topic=arts-releases-detail



Thanks, the music sounds very much worthwhile and significant.  :)
Performances sound excellent too, but imagine this by Andreas Staier! :o Would be just the thing for him, or maybe Immerseel, Brautigam or Komen?  ::)

Q

Antoine Marchand

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #464 on: May 03, 2009, 04:03:39 AM »

Thanks, the music sounds very much worthwhile and significant.  :)
Performances sound excellent too, but imagine this by Andreas Staier! :o Would be just the thing for him, or maybe Immerseel, Brautigam or Komen?  ::)

Q

Also sometimes my imagination has run wild, Que.

When I listened to András Schiff playing on the Beethoven’s Broadwood piano –before his ongoing set-, I imagined a complete set by him on period instruments!

I thought to write a letter suggesting the idea. But I didn’t do it considering his some “militant” position against the HIP movement and because I’m not (yet) totally crazy.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 04:09:51 AM by Antoine Marchand »

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #465 on: May 03, 2009, 05:16:15 AM »
I have the 4 CDs of the complete Gradus ad Parnassum played by Laval, and it is very good indeed. You should get a complete set, Gurn: it is a fundamental work of classical piano literature.

Thanks, Gabriel. You know, I didn't even know that she did 4 disks, the disk I have (the original from 1981) doesn't say "volume 1", perhaps at the time they weren't sure if she would do them all. In any case, I really do enjoy it, and since I knew nothing about it I have never brought it up... :-\

Are the recordings mentioned (Laval and the set on Arts) on fortepiano?
Because after having heard Clementi on Staier's Broadwood and on Mastroprimiano's copy after Dulcken, that's mandatory IMO! :o  :)

Q

Don't you just hate that? ;D  To me, any composer before 1835 should be played on a pianoforte, that's all there is to it. I really need to get that Staier disk too; I have Schiff playing on Beethoven's own Broadwood, and I rather enjoy it a lot more than his Beethoven on modern piano.

Also sometimes my imagination has run wild, Que.

When I listened to András Schiff playing on the Beethoven’s Broadwood piano –before his ongoing set-, I imagined a complete set by him on period instruments!

I thought to write a letter suggesting the idea. But I didn’t do it considering his some “militant” position against the HIP movement and because I’m not (yet) totally crazy.  ;D


Me too, Antoine. That would be awesome. I also have Schiff playing (with his wife) on Mozart's own instruments from the Mozarteum, which is a very enjoyable disk. Not all modern pianists can adapt to the particular technique required on the fortepiano, but Schiff does a great job of it. :)

8)

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I have heard that Hickox' 4th movement here is excellent, can't wait to hear it for the first time!
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Offline Mozart

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #466 on: May 03, 2009, 08:29:57 PM »
Mozart sure used alot of themes. What a wacko!
"I am the musical tree, eat of my fruit and your spirit shall rejoiceth!"
- Amadeus 6:26

Offline Mozart

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #467 on: May 03, 2009, 08:35:30 PM »
Well, I know you are a chamber fan (like me!) but you would likely be interested in Paisiello's piano concerti. The #4 in g minor is particularly good (you can find it on a Naxos disk). Not all of the opera composers were good at purley instrumental music, but he was one who was. :)

8)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/xmrcXKuY-gM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/xmrcXKuY-gM</a>
"I am the musical tree, eat of my fruit and your spirit shall rejoiceth!"
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ChamberNut

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #468 on: May 04, 2009, 04:11:14 AM »
OK.....last night I was at a chamber music concert, and I heard the most wonderful Trio for violin, viola and cello by Boccherini:)  It was in D major, but there wasn't any other description as to opus number.  And I think Boccherini wrote more than 1 or 2 in D major.

The three movement structure was as follows:

Allegro giusto
Andantino
Allegro Assai


I really have to get this into my collection!  Well, I can always just buy all the string trios.  :D

Dvorak's Piano Quintet in A major was supposed to be the feature, highlight work last night at this concert.  And yes, it was great but the Boccherini D major trio stole my heart!  :)

Aha!! It's the G.98, Op. 14/4 D major Trio. What an awesome piece!!!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 04:16:33 AM by ChamberNut »

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #469 on: May 04, 2009, 04:47:08 AM »
Well, Ray, there aren't as many possibilities. Here they are:

G 80: String Trio Op. 1 No. 4 in D major
G 87: String Trio Op. 4 No. 5 in D major
G 98: String Trio Op. 14 No. 4 in D major
G 104: String Trio Op. 34 No. 4 in D major
G 111: String Trio Op. 47 No. 5 in D major
G 113: String Trio Op. 54 No. 1 in D major
G 122: String Trio Op. 3 No. 4 in D major
G 123: String Trio Op. 3 No. 5 in D major
G 126: String Trio Op. 7 No. 2 in D major
G 131: String Trio Op. 28 No. 1 in D major

The ones that are bolded are stronger possibilities, not least because they have been recorded, and so it is sure they are available. Anyway, I'll check tempi tonight when I get home and let you know if I can narrow it down...  :)

8)
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Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #470 on: May 04, 2009, 08:09:46 AM »
....The three movement structure was as follows:

Allegro giusto
Andantino
Allegro Assai


Aha!! It's the G.98, Op. 14/4 D major Trio. What an awesome piece!!!

Ray - believe that you got it right!  The movement descriptions matches the number you have given; if not already done, checkout the excellent Boccherini Catalog HERE!

Not sure if this set is available or can be downloaded, but I have the Op. 14 String Trios w/ Trio Miro; believe all that I have of his 'trio output' which was substantial according to the catolog mentioned - any other recommendations?  Dave  :D


ChamberNut

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #471 on: May 04, 2009, 08:16:08 AM »
Another thing I learned at last night's concert.  I knew he was extremely proficient with the cello, but Boccherini was such a virtuoso with the cello, that he could play violin passages on his cello.....in the same pitch as a violin!  :o

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #472 on: May 04, 2009, 08:22:37 AM »
Another thing I learned at last night's concert.  I knew he was extremely proficient with the cello, but Boccherini was such a virtuoso with the cello, that he could play violin passages on his cello.....in the same pitch as a violin!  :o

Yes, one of the things he was famous for. And not just passages, he could play whole violin concertos at pitch on the cello. Not being a cello player, I can only say that if that is as impressively difficult as it sounds to be, I would have loved to hear it! :)

8)
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ChamberNut

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #473 on: May 04, 2009, 08:39:17 AM »
Yes, one of the things he was famous for. And not just passages, he could play whole violin concertos at pitch on the cello. Not being a cello player, I can only say that if that is as impressively difficult as it sounds to be, I would have loved to hear it! :)

8)

Oh yah?!  Well M could do that on the double-bass blind folded!  ;)

Offline Gabriel

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #474 on: May 04, 2009, 03:54:24 PM »
Well, another contribution to this traditional series of Gurn's Classical Corner.

A recommended list of works: Cherubini (1760-1842).

  • The six string quartets: Eb, C, Dm, E, F, Am
  • Symphony in D major
  • Concert overture
  • Lodoïska
  • Médée
  • Les deux journées
  • Les Abencérages, ou l'Étendard de Grenade
  • Overtures from operas not yet recorded (as far as I know): Ali Baba, Anacréon, Eliza, Faniska
  • Mass in F major, "Messe de Chimay"
  • Mass in D minor, "Esterházy"
  • Mass in C major
  • Mass in G for the coronation of Louis XVIII
  • Missa solemnis in E major
  • Mass in A for the coronation of Charles X
  • Requiem in C minor
  • Requiem in D minor
  • Chant sur la mort de Joseph Haydn

The most impressive thing is that this list includes most of the Cherubini works recorded (an important omission, alas, is the string quintet, but as I haven't listened to it yet, I will not include it in the list). In my opinion, Beethoven was right when saying that Cherubini was the greatest composer of his time, excluding himself. His technical command is impressive, and his counterpoint beautifully natural (for example, he was capable to write stile antico with ease, while Beethoven had to struggle to assimilate "ancient" writing in the Credo of the Missa Solemnis). His vocal lines are transparent and well crafted, and it was not an obstacle for expressing some of the most turbulent music of the classical era in Médée, the most noble anxiety in Les Abencérages, or the sublime mixture of the popular and the academic in Les deux journées. A solid, all-rounded composer.

Some days ago I heard live the introduction to the third act of Médée. I was overwhelmed: it is one of those cases in which recordings are really, really far from the effect of the direct perception of the work.

In my opinion, he's waiting in the 21st century the chance that Haydn had in the 20th. But it will be more difficult, for Cherubini is eminently a vocal composer: religious music and operas in French are not precisely the kind of works to be played as frequently as piano sonatas or symphonies. And yet, his symphony and the six string quartets are outstanding works: not just because of the remarkable beauty of the music, but also because his view is in many points different from the Viennese composers whose style is so "natural" to us.

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #475 on: May 04, 2009, 04:12:14 PM »
Thanks for that list, Gabriel. And as you noted, Beethoven turned me on to Cherubini, after I read his statement in a biography.

I have all the instrumental music that you've listed here, and I have to agree, it is all first rate music and a must-have for anyone who is inclined to get away from the routine (no matter how great the routine may be). I can add only a couple of works to your list:

Capriccio ou Etude for Pianoforte  1789 - a 4 part (movement?) solo piano work from the time of his student days in Vienna. Actually, it is eye-opening, since the 1789 date seems like it can't be right when you hear the music (but it is!). I have Mario Patuzzi playing it, don't know if there is anyone else (but would love it on a Walter!).

I also have 1 Etude for Horn & Strings, which, since it is marked "#2", leads one to believe there must be others. It is also very interesting.

8)




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Offline Sorin Eushayson

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #476 on: May 05, 2009, 08:48:28 PM »
I admit, I didn't even consider Cherubini until I, too, read of Beethoven's high regard of the man's music.

For the Requiem in C Minor try the recording by Spering and Das Neue Orchester - he really lights a fire under it!  Unfortunately there are no exceptional recordings for the D Minor Requiem, which is a shame because it's a masterpiece!

Cherubini's six string quartets have been recorded on time-appropriate instruments by Hausmusik.

Offline Gabriel

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #477 on: May 06, 2009, 03:50:37 AM »
Thanks for that list, Gabriel. And as you noted, Beethoven turned me on to Cherubini, after I read his statement in a biography.

I admit, I didn't even consider Cherubini until I, too, read of Beethoven's high regard of the man's music.

I guess it is the case with most people, myself included. It is a pity that his music is seldom performed and not very often recorded. Anyway, Riccardo Muti must be really thanked for his remarkable exploration on the sacred works of Cherubini; I hope that EMI will be clever enough to release the excellent Mass in C major to continue their series, because the only recording available suffers quite a lot by the sound quality and the soloists. (Muti also recorded Lodoïska, Cherubini's first important opera, but I think that a sharper approach would benefit the score).

Capriccio ou Etude for Pianoforte  1789 - a 4 part (movement?) solo piano work from the time of his student days in Vienna. Actually, it is eye-opening, since the 1789 date seems like it can't be right when you hear the music (but it is!). I have Mario Patuzzi playing it, don't know if there is anyone else (but would love it on a Walter!).

I also have 1 Etude for Horn & Strings, which, since it is marked "#2", leads one to believe there must be others. It is also very interesting.

Thanks for this advice, Gurn. I guess I saw the Capriccio once in a CD, but I haven't bought it. And it is great to have an outstanding piano work by his, for his piano sonatas are early compositions that do not show the genius that was creating them. As for the Étude, I don't know it (but I'm almost sure I've seen it in at least a couple of CDs).

Unfortunately there are no exceptional recordings for the D Minor Requiem, which is a shame because it's a masterpiece!

There is a very good recording by Igor Markevitch, but it already sounds a bit old. I would really like to know what would our HIP champions be able to do with this powerful work.

Cherubini's six string quartets have been recorded on time-appropriate instruments by Hausmusik.

Do not forget the Melos recording, originally for DG, that has recently been re-released by Brilliant. At full-price, those performances are a bargain. At Brilliant price, what to say!

Offline Gabriel

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #478 on: May 06, 2009, 04:31:38 AM »
I transpose a message I've just written in another thread, concerning - naturally - a classical composer.



It's interesting that you mention this CD, Traverso. It's the only CD I own of Brunetti's music, and I would like to know more of it before trying to describe the style of the composer. But specifically about these few string quartets I can say that it is some of the most intriguing chamber music of the classical period. Perhaps it is the use of listening to the Viennese composers of the time, but even compared with Boccherini's works these are very special; I would even say that they are very strange. Their emotional approach is a light one, but the music in itself is quite twisted: very strange textures, unexpected modulations, irregular subjects, and lots of other surprises.

If I had to describe these works, I'd say they are like a piranha. Their size is deceiving. And when gathered in groups, they can create a very powerful force. According to Wikipedia, he wrote a considerable amount of chamber music (44 string quartets, 66 string quintets, and so on). If most of his music had at least the level presented by this CD, we would be in front of a very sadly forgotten composer; and considering that Brunetti was active in Spain at the same time Boccherini was, they both could offer a most distinguished counterpoint to the Haydn-Mozart Austrian chamber music writing of this period.

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #479 on: May 06, 2009, 01:02:15 PM »
A recommended list of works: Cherubini (1760-1842).

  • The six string quartets: Eb, C, Dm, E, F, Am
  • Requiem in C minor
  • Requiem in D minor

The most impressive thing is that this list includes most of the Cherubini works recorded

Gabriel - thanks for the listing of Cherubini's works - only have the works above from your list - may need some more!   ;D

In the String Quartets, own the CPO offering of 3-CDs w/ Hausmusik London - enjoy them, but have no 'comparison' comments w/ others -  :-\

Love Requiem Masses - have Muti in the C minor & Markevich in the D minor (an older recording) - seems like I have much to explore!

I transpose a message I've just written in another thread, concerning - naturally - a classical composer.

It's interesting that you mention this CD, Traverso.  Re:  Gaetano Brunetti

Thanks again for the comments on this composer, unknown to me - but, as you may know, I'm a BIG Boccherini fan, so will put these works of Brunetti on my 'to buy' list - Dave  :)