Gurn's Classical Corner

Started by Gurn Blanston, February 22, 2009, 07:05:20 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Sorin Eushayson

Quote from: Gabriel on May 06, 2009, 04:50:37 AM
There is a very good recording by Igor Markevitch, but it already sounds a bit old. I would really like to know what would our HIP champions be able to do with this powerful work.

That's the one I have as well.  Not sure if I'd say this is a particularly inspired reading, but the music sure is amazing!  ;D

Sorin Eushayson

By the way, happy Symphony No. 9 Day to everyone here in Gurn's Classical Corner!  ;D

FideLeo

Quote from: Gabriel on May 06, 2009, 05:31:38 AM
It's interesting that you mention this CD, Traverso. It's the only CD I own of Brunetti's music, and I would like to know more of it before trying to describe the style of the composer. But specifically about these few string quartets I can say that it is some of the most intriguing chamber music of the classical period. Perhaps it is the use of listening to the Viennese composers of the time, but even compared with Boccherini's works these are very special; I would even say that they are very strange. Their emotional approach is a light one, but the music in itself is quite twisted: very strange textures, unexpected modulations, irregular subjects, and lots of other surprises.

Thank you for a long and perceptive post - I agree with most of what you say and will only observe that the Schuppanzigh Qt is quite good at re-discovering forgotten gems and at presenting them as something truly remarkable.  Hausmusik, on the other hand, doesn't seem to possess the same knack for me.  :)
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

SonicMan46

Pleyel, Ignaz Joseph (1757-1831) - Clarinet Concertos 1 & 2 w/ Dieter Klocker on CPO.  In addition to being a student of Haydn, musical publisher, & piano maker, he was one of the most popular composers in Europe in the early 19th century and wrote a large number of varied works. 

Not sure that we've discussed Pleyel in this thread in depth, but I just received the disc below w/ the fabulous Klocker on the clarinet - he also wrote the superb liner notes in the CPO booklet.  Gurn started a thread on Pleyel in the old forum (which is linked on the first page of this current one); he quoted a short but excellent bio written by Allan Bradley, which can be read HERE, for those interested.

I have just 4 other discs of music from this composer:

Symphonies w/ Bamert & London Mozart Players on Chandos (9525)
Symphonies w/ Grodd & Capella Istropolitana on Naxos (8.554696)
Piano Trios w/ Trio Joachim on Dynamic (2017)
String Quartets, Op. 1, Nos. 1-3 w/ Enso Quartet on Naxos (8.557496)

 

ChamberNut

Quote from: Gabriel on April 08, 2009, 02:15:22 PM
I feel quite motivated today, because I bought the new Boccherini CD recorded by Fabio Biondi and Europa Galante for Virgin Classics. I have the two previous releases and they are nothing less than extraordinary. I hope this one (which I have not listened to yet) will keep on the same level. They play one trio (D major, op. 14/4, G. 98), one quartet (C minor, op. 41/1, G. 214), one quintet (C minor, op. 45/1, G. 355) and one sextet (F minor, op. 23/4, G. 457). Quite a proliferation of minor-key works! (Unfortunately my headphones collapsed yesterday and today I didn't have time for buying a replacement, so any comment will have to wait at least until tomorrow).

How do you enjoy this CD, Gabriel.  Upon first listen it was fantastic!  I partilarly enjoyed the Quintet and Trio.  :)

Gabriel

Quote from: ChamberNut on May 12, 2009, 07:52:41 AM
How do you enjoy this CD, Gabriel.  Upon first listen it was fantastic!  I partilarly enjoyed the Quintet and Trio.  :)

Well, I guess I never wrote the further comments I suggested! ;D

My impression on this CD improves after every listening. It is played with delicacy, wit and sense of balance. I would be very (but thankfully) surprised if somebody could play these works better than Biondi and Europa Galante.

I would say that the star of the set is the Quintet op. 45/1 that strategically opens the CD. A true masterpiece that, to my ears, shows the most Italian side of Boccherini.

  • The Adagio non tanto is remarkable in its natural but (at first) unexpected harmonic progressions and in the contrasts in intensity provided by the second subject.
  • The second movement, Allegro assai, is a compact sonata form movement that provides the most effective contrast between the Vivaldian (I can't put it better in other words) first subject and the somewhat incoherent (this is not pejorative, just descriptive) second one. The development is very beautiful, with no great surprises excepting a strange harmonic leap before the short transition to the recapitulation (around 3:25-3:27); this last one is quite short but keeps the surprise of changing to minor mode the second subject before the coda (what is quite natural as Boccherini wanted to end the movement in minor mode).
  • The Tempo di minuetto is not very eloquent, but it shows the hidden advantages of a A-B-A' structure: when listening to the minuet (A), it seems that it doesn't keep any surprise; then the trio (B) repeats a 3-note figure that answers quite violently to the first sentence; of course, the minuet (A') comes back... to show that in its first subject there are two echoes of the 3-note subject that was first clearly shown in the trio, one in the bass section of the first subject (not very clear), and then as a response (very clear) with the second note being higher than the other two.
  • Finally, the concluding Presto is a Boccherinian Sturm und Drang. Quick alternations between major and minor modes, between different intensities, it hides a formidable inner tension. Tremolandi play a substantial role, even in the short development (if I am listening correctly, it is a very short rondo-sonata form, with inverted subjects in the recapitulation).

On the other works there are many features to be remarked. On the Sextet op. 23/4, the great difference in character with the Quintet that I just described. The long introductory Allegro moderato is outstanding because Boccherini makes every possible effort to diminish any contrast between the subjects (v. gr., the appearance of a major sentence in the B subject is exceptionally soft and timid) as well as between the sections (v. gr., there is a sort of fusion between the codetta of the B subject and the repetition of the A subject). This kind of dark approach is repeated in the third movement, Grave assai, with its sinuous lines that form almost an introduction to the exceptionally folk-like fourth movement. The Quartet op. 41/1 has the magnificent Andante flebile as its center, a simple yet impeccably written movement. Finally, about the Trio op. 14/4, I'm particularly fond of the Andantino, that according to the booklet is played sempre piano by the viola and the cello. The effect obtained by Boccherini is sensational: as it doesn't change this very soft playing, what he does during the four minutes is to gather energy for a possible outburst that never comes (it does with the final movement, but that is a different story).

I'm sorry if I have been inaccurate in some descriptions, but it is already 2:30 AM in France and this can have some consequences on musical explorations. ;)

ChamberNut

Quote from: Gabriel on May 12, 2009, 04:35:04 PM
Well, I guess I never wrote the further comments I suggested! ;D

My impression on this CD improves after every listening. It is played with delicacy, wit and sense of balance. I would be very (but thankfully) surprised if somebody could play these works better than Biondi and Europa Galante.

I would say that the star of the set is the Quintet op. 45/1 that strategically opens the CD. A true masterpiece that, to my ears, shows the most Italian side of Boccherini.

  • The Adagio non tanto is remarkable in its natural but (at first) unexpected harmonic progressions and in the contrasts in intensity provided by the second subject.
  • The second movement, Allegro assai, is a compact sonata form movement that provides the most effective contrast between the Vivaldian (I can't put it better in other words) first subject and the somewhat incoherent (this is not pejorative, just descriptive) second one. The development is very beautiful, with no great surprises excepting a strange harmonic leap before the short transition to the recapitulation (around 3:25-3:27); this last one is quite short but keeps the surprise of changing to minor mode the second subject before the coda (what is quite natural as Boccherini wanted to end the movement in minor mode).
  • The Tempo di minuetto is not very eloquent, but it shows the hidden advantages of a A-B-A' structure: when listening to the minuet (A), it seems that it doesn't keep any surprise; then the trio (B) repeats a 3-note figure that answers quite violently to the first sentence; of course, the minuet (A') comes back... to show that in its first subject there are two echoes of the 3-note subject that was first clearly shown in the trio, one in the bass section of the first subject (not very clear), and then as a response (very clear) with the second note being higher than the other two.
  • Finally, the concluding Presto is a Boccherinian Sturm und Drang. Quick alternations between major and minor modes, between different intensities, it hides a formidable inner tension. Tremolandi play a substantial role, even in the short development (if I am listening correctly, it is a very short rondo-sonata form, with inverted subjects in the recapitulation).

On the other works there are many features to be remarked. On the Sextet op. 23/4, the great difference in character with the Quintet that I just described. The long introductory Allegro moderato is outstanding because Boccherini makes every possible effort to diminish any contrast between the subjects (v. gr., the appearance of a major sentence in the B subject is exceptionally soft and timid) as well as between the sections (v. gr., there is a sort of fusion between the codetta of the B subject and the repetition of the A subject). This kind of dark approach is repeated in the third movement, Grave assai, with its sinuous lines that form almost an introduction to the exceptionally folk-like fourth movement. The Quartet op. 41/1 has the magnificent Andante flebile as its center, a simple yet impeccably written movement. Finally, about the Trio op. 14/4, I'm particularly fond of the Andantino, that according to the booklet is played sempre piano by the viola and the cello. The effect obtained by Boccherini is sensational: as it doesn't change this very soft playing, what he does during the four minutes is to gather energy for a possible outburst that never comes (it does with the final movement, but that is a different story).

I'm sorry if I have been inaccurate in some descriptions, but it is already 2:30 AM in France and this can have some consequences on musical explorations. ;)

Thank you for the thorough feedback, Gabriel!  :)  The initial reason I got this disc was to get that Trio in D major, and because of that spectacular Andantino, which blew me away when I heard it in the concert I recently attended.  Definitely look forward to several repeat listens in the very near future.  :)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: SonicMan on May 12, 2009, 07:43:41 AM
Pleyel, Ignaz Joseph (1757-1831) - Clarinet Concertos 1 & 2 w/ Dieter Klocker on CPO.  In addition to being a student of Haydn, musical publisher, & piano maker, he was one of the most popular composers in Europe in the early 19th century and wrote a large number of varied works. 

Not sure that we've discussed Pleyel in this thread in depth, but I just received the disc below w/ the fabulous Klocker on the clarinet - he also wrote the superb liner notes in the CPO booklet.  Gurn started a thread on Pleyel in the old forum (which is linked on the first page of this current one); he quoted a short but excellent bio written by Allan Bradley, which can be read HERE, for those interested.

I have just 4 other discs of music from this composer:

Symphonies w/ Bamert & London Mozart Players on Chandos (9525)
Symphonies w/ Grodd & Capella Istropolitana on Naxos (8.554696)
Piano Trios w/ Trio Joachim on Dynamic (2017)
String Quartets, Op. 1, Nos. 1-3 w/ Enso Quartet on Naxos (8.557496)

 

Dave,
Thanks for the reminder about Pleyel. I had only listened to his piano sonatas recently, and now I can go back to the piano trios and string quartets too. :D   

As a student of Haydn, the expectations on Pleyel are pretty high, and he does a good job satisfying them, at least up to a degree. It is a challenging job trying to match the Master! In any case, as we are coming to expect, the music I have by him seems to be totally different from yours (and this is a good thing in terms of presenting variety. ;)

Here are some good ones:



I also have the other Hungaroton disk, Vol 2 with the violin concertos, and the clarinet concertos, the Chandos symphonies by Bamert et al, and finally, a good mix of sinfonias concertantes, which are on disks with contemporary composers. Overall, I have found Pleyel to be a sound and well-structured craftsman who provides many hours of listening enjoyment. And if he's no Haydn, well, not very many are. :)

8)





----------------
Listening to:
Prague Chamber Orchestra / MacKerras - K 543 Symphony #39 in Eb 3rd mvmt - Menuetto: Allegrettto - Trio
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: ChamberNut on May 12, 2009, 05:25:32 PM
Thank you for the thorough feedback, Gabriel!  :)  The initial reason I got this disc was to get that Trio in D major, and because of that spectacular Andantino, which blew me away when I heard it in the concert I recently attended.  Definitely look forward to several repeat listens in the very near future.  :)

OK, well I guess I can't put it off any longer. I've put that Europa Galante disk in the shopping basket. :)

Thanks, Ray, for prodding Gabriel into letting us in on it. I always expected great things, but now I have no choice. :)

8)


----------------
Listening to:
Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra / Zinman  Bronfman - Op 15 Concerto #1 in C for Piano 1st mvmt - Allegro con brio
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gabriel

Quote from: Gabriel on May 12, 2009, 04:35:04 PM
...(if I am listening correctly, it is a very short rondo-sonata form, with inverted subjects in the recapitulation).

I'm sorry if I have been inaccurate in some descriptions, but it is already 2:30 AM in France and this can have some consequences on musical explorations. ;)

I was inaccurate indeed. The fourth movement of the quintet is written in sonata form with inversion of the subjects in the recapitulation, and not in rondo-sonata.

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 12, 2009, 05:55:54 PM
OK, well I guess I can't put it off any longer. I've put that Europa Galante disk in the shopping basket. :)

You will not regret it, Gurn. This is really great music, and excellently played.

I will try to post in the near future some comments on the new CD of Krommer's string quartets by the Marcolini Quartet. I've listened to it once and I think there are some interesting points to write about. (As Dave has the CD too, I guess he could start writing some appreciations). :)

Sorin Eushayson

Pleyel...  What I have heard of him I have liked.  No doubt he lies somewhere around the bend in my ever-winding music road!  ;)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on May 13, 2009, 05:47:22 PM
Pleyel...  What I have heard of him I have liked.  No doubt he lies somewhere around the bend in my ever-winding music road!  ;)

That's the great thing about music: so much of it to catch up to! I've no doubt you will run across Pleyel, probably rather sooner than later, and you'll like what you hear. :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

I have been waiting for the appearance of one of my very favorite composers here, but since he is shy as well as lovable, I guess I will have to bring him into the Corner on my own, with an able assist from Dave, who originally posted this bio in the old Forum.

Antonio Rosetti (1746-1792), a.k.a. František Antonín Rössler (or confusingly by other names) was born in Bohemia of Czech origin, but chose to Italianize his name (leading to further confusion with other musicians).  He received his education in Prague and at a Jesuit college in central Bohemia, where he studied theology (intending to be a priest) and music, but in the early 1770s decided to pick music as his avocation.  Rosetti was a double bass player and a member of the Prince Ernst orchestra, of which he became director in 1785.  The Prince's orchestra had a fine group of wind players and musical events at the chateau occurred weekly, so a large part of Rosetti's compositional oeuvre comprises works of chamber music.

In 1781, he visited Paris, where his music was warmly received, an event repeated in other European cities.  Rosetti became orchestral conductor of the Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin in 1789 at the peak of his reputation; symphonies and vocal works were commissioned further enhancing his reputation.  During that time, he was also summoned to the court of King Frederick William III of Berlin to present his Oratorio Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.  However, Rosetti, who suffered from poor health most of his life, became seriously ill. and died in June of 1792 and was buried at Ludwigslust (debate exists about his age claiming his year of birth to be ca. 1750).

Rosetti's musical influences were primarily late Baroque-early Classic with Haydn having a major impact on his compositional direction.  In addition, his writing for smaller groups, especially wind instruments, was governed by his contact with the wind players in the ochestras of which he directed or was a member.  A partial listing of his works (comprising 400 or so) include 44 Symphonies, 4 keyboard concerti, 6 violin concerti, 1 viola concerto, 12 flute concerti, 7 oboe concerti, 4 clarinet concerti, 5 bassoon concerti, 17 horn concerti, 6 double horn concerti, 5 sinfonia concertantes, 38 partitas/serenades, 12 string quartets, 11 keyboard sonatas, 13 keyboard trios, 13 masses, 4 requiems, 22 other church works and 82 lieder reference here).


I wish I could say I have more of his music, since much of it has finally come available over the last 10 years, but I do have 10 or so disks which I am quite fond of. He is the quintessential Classical composer, writing in all genres as noted above, and particularly composing very fine wind music. Maybe someone will post some disks of interest, and I certainly will do so soon. :)

8)

PS - This one below is particularly choice! ;)
----------------
Listening to:
Concerto Köln - Rosetti Mur A27 Sinfonia  in Eb 4th mvmt - Finale: Allegretto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Valentino

#493


These are sublime.

The modernist Pollini and that impeccable VPO in live recordings of K. 414 & 491, and 453 & 491. Musical awareness easily undoes historical awareness, IMO.
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

SonicMan46

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on May 17, 2009, 06:17:54 PM
Antonio Rosetti (1746-1792) ...............Rosetti's musical influences were primarily late Baroque-early Classic with Haydn having a major impact on his compositional direction.  In addition, his writing for smaller groups, especially wind instruments, was governed by his contact with the wind players in the ochestras of which he directed or was a member.  A partial listing of his works (comprising 400 or so) include 44 Symphonies, 4 keyboard concerti, 6 violin concerti, 1 viola concerto, 12 flute concerti, 7 oboe concerti, 4 clarinet concerti, 5 bassoon concerti, 17 horn concerti, 6 double horn concerti, 5 sinfonia concertantes, 38 partitas/serenades, 12 string quartets, 11 keyboard sonatas, 13 keyboard trios, 13 masses, 4 requiems, 22 other church works and 82 lieder reference here).[/color]

I wish I could say I have more of his music, since much of it has finally come available over the last 10 years, but I do have 10 or so disks which I am quite fond of. He is the quintessential Classical composer, writing in all genres as noted above, and particularly composing very fine wind music. Maybe someone will post some disks of interest, and I certainly will do so so.....

Hello Gurn - just returning from a long weekend trip to the mountains & ready to 'jump into' the forum again!  :D

Despite Rosetti's varied output, I would strongly endorse his wind music for those in a classical 'breezy' mood!  I also have about 10 discs (most on the CPO label - in fact, bought as a large 'box set' that may no longer be available); however, for those who use BRO, check HERE for some great values on CPO offerings from this composer! 

However, I've not acquired any recent CDs, so must take a look!  Dave  :)

SonicMan46

Gaetano Brunetti's (dates below) String Quartets have been coming up in a number of threads and may warrant further discussion?  He was first brought to my attention from posts by Traverso & Gabriel, the latter quoted below my short one left in the 'listening thread'; about the only other recording that I can find on Amazon are some Symphonies by a group which I admire (pic inserted below, right).  Gabriel's comments on the SQs are quite perceptive and I'm listening to that disc @ the moment.

Brunetti, an Italian, spent his adult years in Spain at the Madrid court; he was sponsored by Carlos IV, ruler of Spain - he pretty much co-existed w/ Boccherini on the Iberian peninsula, but little of his large output has been published and a scant amount recorded.  Brunetti, according to the liner notes composed 39 symphonies and overtures, much chamber music, and many compositions in other categories; the chamber works include violin sonatas, 60 string quintets, and over 50 string quartets; apparently, Carlos IV was often a second violinist in the performances of these chamber works, and was devastated by the sudden death of the composer in 1798; perhaps these works still survived, sequestered in Madrid (or elsewhere) - yet, another long forgotten classical composer who deserves a MAJOR rediscovery!   :D

Quote from: SonicMan on May 20, 2009, 03:39:31 PM
Brunetti, Gaetano (1744-1798) - String Quartets w/ Anton Steck & Schuppanzigh Quartett - this composer is 'new' to me but has been recommended in these pages; an Italian who spent his adult life at the Spanish court of the late 18th century, and a contemporary of Boccherini - Brunetti wrote a LOT of music (esp. chamber works & symphonies), but little has been published and even much less recorded - this guy is good & needs some further exploration!  If you like classical SQs, this recording will be a joy!

 

Quote from: Gabriel on May 06, 2009, 05:31:38 AM
I transpose a message I've just written in another thread, concerning - naturally - a classical composer.

It's interesting that you mention this CD, Traverso. It's the only CD I own of Brunetti's music, and I would like to know more of it before trying to describe the style of the composer. But specifically about these few string quartets I can say that it is some of the most intriguing chamber music of the classical period. Perhaps it is the use of listening to the Viennese composers of the time, but even compared with Boccherini's works these are very special; I would even say that they are very strange. Their emotional approach is a light one, but the music in itself is quite twisted: very strange textures, unexpected modulations, irregular subjects, and lots of other surprises.

If I had to describe these works, I'd say they are like a piranha. Their size is deceiving. And when gathered in groups, they can create a very powerful force. According to Wikipedia, he wrote a considerable amount of chamber music (44 string quartets, 66 string quintets, and so on). If most of his music had at least the level presented by this CD, we would be in front of a very sadly forgotten composer; and considering that Brunetti was active in Spain at the same time Boccherini was, they both could offer a most distinguished counterpoint to the Haydn-Mozart Austrian chamber music writing of this period.


Gabriel

Thanks for recalling Brunetti into this discussion, Dave. What is your opinion on the symphonies CD? Are they written with the same twisted spirit of the string quartets, or are they closer to traditional mid-classical standards?

SonicMan46

Quote from: Gabriel on May 23, 2009, 11:16:29 AM
Thanks for recalling Brunetti into this discussion, Dave. What is your opinion on the symphonies CD? Are they written with the same twisted spirit of the string quartets, or are they closer to traditional mid-classical standards?

Hi Gabriel - I don't own that symphony disc, but was amazed on 'searching' Amazon that it was about the only other recording available of this composer's works! However, I'm putting together an Amazon order this weekend and may just add the CD to my list (need to re-check the pricing, though) - Dave  :D

Gabriel

Check the pricing... I hope it will be bon marché! I would be eager for such a review, Dave!

(I've received a new Krommer flute quintets CD, and it is extremely good! I hope, nevertheless, to post something about the Krommer string quartets CD in the following days, as I promised).

Mozart

In my recording of Mozart's Haydn quartets they repeat the recap section, and it becomes 4 minutes longer than other recordings of the d min 1st mov quartet I have. What's the deal with that? Was it common to do that or are they just being weirdos? I got these cds because of their recordings of Haydn's quartets but I don't think they repeat the recap section in those.
"I am the musical tree, eat of my fruit and your spirit shall rejoiceth!"
- Amadeus 6:26