Gurn's Classical Corner

[DavidW]

Nice!
Say, who's the cute girl sitting on the right-hand side of the central figure?

Well that must be Anna Magdalena.

[kishnevi]

IIRC, the "cute girl" is actually supposed to be St. John aka the beloved disciple. 

[Gurn Blanston]

IIRC, the "cute girl" is actually supposed to be St. John aka the beloved disciple.

Clearly you haven't read the Gospel according to St. Sebastian... ummm..  The Da Vinci Code.

[DavidW]

So I've been listening to some of Haydn's baryton trios and I find that the baryton parts are pretty simple.  I think that the amazing part is that the viola gets alot more challenging work, but at the same time somehow never upstages the baryton.  It's an incredibly delicate balance, and the cello gets some interesting parts too.

But that did made me think, has anybody here listened to compositions that really showed off what the baryton can do?

[Gurn Blanston]

So I've been listening to some of Haydn's baryton trios and I find that the baryton parts are pretty simple.  I think that the amazing part is that the viola gets alot more challenging work, but at the same time somehow never upstages the baryton.  It's an incredibly delicate balance, and the cello gets some interesting parts too.

But that did made me think, has anybody here listened to compositions that really showed off what the baryton can do?

A couple of weeks ago one of the regulars posted a disk by Abel that would suit your requirements. Abel was a virtuoso on the viola da gamba, which, as you know, is a baryton with the resonating strings absent. He also wrote baryton music for himself. I will be ordering that disk this weekend, in fact, as I would like to hear some virtuoso baryton music too. Look back just 2 or 3 pages at most and there is an Amazon link...



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Now playing:
Ryo Terakado \ Boyan Vodenitcharov - Bia 294 Op 24 Sonata #05 in F for Piano & Violin 1st mvmt - Allegro

[DavidW]

Yeah but that was bashed by Que, probably not any good.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yeah but that was bashed by Que, probably not any good.

Now, now, the world is full of different tastes. How else would you explain the dichotomy between Mozart and, say Koechlin, for example...




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Now playing:
Ryo Terakado \ Boyan Vodenitcharov - Bia 294 Op 24 Sonata #05 in F for Piano & Violin 1st mvmt - Allegro

[SonicMan46]

So I've been listening to some of Haydn's baryton trios and I find that the baryton parts are pretty simple.  I think that the amazing part is that the viola gets alot more challenging work, but at the same time somehow never upstages the baryton.  It's an incredibly delicate balance, and the cello gets some interesting parts too.

But that did made me think, has anybody here listened to compositions that really showed off what the baryton can do?

Yeah but that was bashed by Que, probably not any good.

David - as you already know Haydn had to compose baryton parts for an amateur (although a probably good one), so the combined use of bowing & plucking the sympathetic strings at the same time was not part of the prince's ability as far as I understand.

Looking back a few pages, Leon suggested the Abel disc below, which I have purchased and have listened to multiple times - not sure if Que gave an opinion in this thread?  But I must say that if you want to listen to solo baryton playing in which both sets of strings are used simultaneously, I'm not sure that there is much more out there?  This disc is worth considering in view of your wishes -    Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

David - as you already know Haydn had to compose baryton parts for an amateur (although a probably good one), so the combined use of bowing & plucking the sympathetic strings at the same time was not part of the prince's ability as far as I understand.

Looking back a few pages, Leon suggested the Abel disc below, which I have purchased and have listened to multiple times - not sure if Que gave an opinion in this thread?  But I must say that if you want to listen to solo baryton playing in which both sets of strings are used simultaneously, I'm not sure that there is much more out there?  This disc is worth considering in view of your wishes -    Dave 

Ah, Dave, well "worth considering" is sort of too nebulous for me. What do you really think?     Does it kick butt and take names? 

There were other composers for baryton whose music is still extant, but possibly unrecorded to date. They were unlikely to have been handicapped in the way that Haydn was (composing for an amateur), and I expect if we ever get an opportunity to listen to them, we will discover the true ability of this instrument. Contemporaries never faulted anything about the instrument beyond its difficulty, so I suspect that a virtuoso playing virtuosic music will be able to put on quite a show.

[DavidW]

The one I was thinking of was a different performer... where do you find either of those discs anyway?

[SonicMan46]

Ah, Dave, well "worth considering" is sort of too nebulous for me. What do you really think?     Does it kick butt and take names? 
......

Good evening Gurn - agree w/ Leon - I re-listened to the Abel disc tonight just for you - 

First, this is 'solo' baryton (not sure how many of these recordings are even available?) - second, Foulon, the performer is no amateur, so I'm not sure that these compositions & performances should even be compared w/ the Haydn baryton trios et al - just a thought?

The recording is excellent - these are rather slow works in general (I guess analogous to the JS Bach cello suites - not a great comparison but close enough) - the instrument sounds beautiful; the bowing is often multi-stopped and the resonance from the sympathetic strings is quite evident - I cannot hear a lot of additional 'plucking' of the metal strings, if that is an issue.

Bottom line - how many solo baryton recordings exist?  And composed by one of the most respected cello players of the time - Abel presumably meant these works for an expert and not an amateur prince - certainly worth a listen; very relaxing music - BTW, I tried to look for reviews but could not find any - just for another opinion?  Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Good evening Gurn - agree w/ Leon - I re-listened to the Abel disc tonight just for you - 

First, this is 'solo' baryton (not sure how many of these recordings are even available?) - second, Foulon, the performer is no amateur, so I'm not sure that these compositions & performances should even be compared w/ the Haydn baryton trios et al - just a thought?

The recording is excellent - these are rather slow works in general (I guess analogous to the JS Bach cello suites - not a great comparison but close enough) - the instrument sounds beautiful; the bowing is often multi-stopped and the resonance from the sympathetic strings is quite evident - I cannot hear a lot of additional 'plucking' of the metal strings, if that is an issue.

Bottom line - how many solo baryton recordings exist?  And composed by one of the most respected cello players of the time - Abel presumably meant these works for an expert and not an amateur prince - certainly worth a listen; very relaxing music - BTW, I tried to look for reviews but could not find any - just for another opinion?  Dave 

Ah, Dave, you're a prince!   Merçi beaucoup! In answer to your various questions, none is all I can think of. BTW, where DID you get that disk? I could have sworn that when Leon posted it I found it at Amazon, but looking now I don't even find a listing

Oh, and guys, I went back and looked at Que's post back there, and it was the Pandolfi disk of Abel's "Drexel Manuscripts" for Viola da Gamba that he expressed great disappointment in. I recall now being surprised (as he was) that Pandolfi had produced a form of stinker. Well, stuff happens...




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Now playing:
Ryo Terakado \ Boyan Vodenitcharov - Bia 550 Op 96 Sonata #10 in G for Piano & Violin 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[SonicMan46]

Ah, Dave, you're a prince!   Merçi beaucoup! In answer to your various questions, none is all I can think of. BTW, where DID you get that disk? I could have sworn that when Leon posted it I found it at Amazon, but looking now I don't even find a listing

Gurn - obtained from ArkivMusic for about $11.50 - just checked HERE - seems to be a buck more now - Dave 

[Leo K.]

Ah, Dave, you're a prince!   Merçi beaucoup! In answer to your various questions, none is all I can think of. BTW, where DID you get that disk? I could have sworn that when Leon posted it I found it at Amazon, but looking now I don't even find a listing

Oh, and guys, I went back and looked at Que's post back there, and it was the Pandolfi disk of Abel's "Drexel Manuscripts" for Viola da Gamba that he expressed great disappointment in. I recall now being surprised (as he was) that Pandolfi had produced a form of stinker. Well, stuff happens...




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Now playing:
Ryo Terakado \ Boyan Vodenitcharov - Bia 550 Op 96 Sonata #10 in G for Piano & Violin 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

Gurn I must profoundly disagree on Que's thoughts on the Drexel Manuscript disk! It is an incredible disk and Abel is at his best in terms of technique and musical thought.

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn - obtained from ArkivMusic for about $11.50 - just checked HERE - seems to be a buck more now - Dave 

Oh hell, there you go. Maybe I wasn't holding my tongue right when I hit the search button in Amazon. I can't believe Arkiv have it and Amazon doesn't. Price is the same though, so I must have found it before.    Thanks for the link, amigo.



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Now playing:
Badura-Skoda, Maier, Bylsma, Collegium Aureum - Bia 410 Op 56 Concerto in C for Violin, Cello & Fortepiano in C 1st mvmt - Allegro

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn I must profoundly disagree on Que's thoughts on the Drexel Manuscript disk! It is an incredible disk and Abel is at his best in terms of technique and musical thought.

Thanks for that, Leo. Well, people are certainly going to have a difference of opinion in taste, that's why they have so many versions of things. Well, that and to take our money...   I really do need to get that disk, I think. I already know I like Abel's music. He was JC Bach's partner, but I find his music to be a bit less galant and deeper, more thought provoking maybe. Early times for that outside of Haydn and CPE Bach, but there it is. 



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Now playing:
Badura-Skoda, Maier, Bylsma, Collegium Aureum - Bia 410 Op 56 Concerto in C for Violin, Cello & Fortepiano in C 1st mvmt - Allegro

[Leo K.]

This looks like an interesting disk! I am going to listen to this soon 

I haven't looked yet, but I'm sure there was talk about this before at some point 

[Gurn Blanston]

This looks like an interesting disk! I am going to listen to this soon 

I haven't looked yet, but I'm sure there was talk about this before at some point 

Actually, surprisingly little talk. I don't have that disk, but I do have a different disk of his string quintets which I found very entertaining. Interested to hear your reactions.

The one I have, no picture available (post it from home this evening though).

[asin]B0000UJLTQ[/asin]

[chasmaniac]

I have this disc of Michael's string quintets



but to be honest, I don't remember anything about it.

Gurn, is this the one you're thinking of?

Leo, are the C major and D major pieces on yours called notturni?

[Gurn Blanston]

I have this disc of Michael's string quintets



but to be honest, I don't remember anything about it.

Gurn, is this the one you're thinking of?

Leo, are the C major and D major pieces on yours called notturni?

Yes, chas, that's it for sure. I rather liked it, to be honest. I thought the notturnos were particularly nice.