Gurn's Classical Corner

[SonicMan46]

Just left a post in the listening thread, partially quoted below w/ a pic of the clarinet maker added:

Although labeled as Clarinet Quartets, the K numbers given in the liner notes match the works below (Source) - so, these appear to be transcriptions published after Mozart's death by the editor Andre - suggested again in the booklet that he and possibly Anton Stadler transformed them into clarinet quartets.

The two clarinets (shown on the front cover art) used by Jean-Claude Veilhan were made by Andreas Schöni (his Website) - the performances were recorded in 1994 and are really enjoyable w/ great sound - if you're into Wolfie transcriptions and love this period instrument, then a strong recommendation.  I purchased as a 'used' copy for about $3 (plus the usually $4 S/H) off the Amazon MP - arrived today.  Dave

380   374f    Violin Sonata No. 28 in E-flat   
378   317d    Violin Sonata No. 26 in B-flat
496   496    Piano Trio No. 2 in G

Mozart, WA - Clarinet Quartets w/ Jean-Claude Veilhan on two period clarinets & Trio Stadler - these seem to be transcriptions of two Violin Sonatas & a Piano Trio - will discuss further in Gurn's classical thread, for those interested.  Dave

 

[Gurn Blanston]

Just left a post in the listening thread, partially quoted below w/ a pic of the clarinet maker added:

Although labeled as Clarinet Quartets, the K numbers given in the liner notes match the works below (Source) - so, these appear to be transcriptions published after Mozart's death by the editor Andre - suggested again in the booklet that he and possibly Anton Stadler transformed them into clarinet quartets.

The two clarinets (shown on the front cover art) used by Jean-Claude Veilhan were made by Andreas Schöni (his Website) - the performances were recorded in 1994 and are really enjoyable w/ great sound - if you're into Wolfie transcriptions and love this period instrument, then a strong recommendation.  I purchased as a 'used' copy for about $3 (plus the usually $4 S/H) off the Amazon MP - arrived today.  Dave

Dave,

I believe a total of 6 violin sonatas were arranged for clarinet quartet, I have them, but by a great variety of different performers. The music itself is robust enough to withstand this sort of expansion, and they sound just fine, as though they were written this way. For those who are a bit timid about transcriptions, don't worry about these, I think you will quite enjoy them!

[Karl Henning]

Point of clarification: By clarinet quartet, we mean clarinet plus string trio, yes?

[Gurn Blanston]

Point of clarification: By clarinet quartet, we mean clarinet plus string trio, yes?

Yes. Standard issue at the time.

[SonicMan46]

Point of clarification: By clarinet quartet, we mean clarinet plus string trio, yes?

Karl - yes, as Gurn indicated; the Trio Stadler is a string group - and some excellent clarinet writing!

I believe a total of 6 violin sonatas were arranged for clarinet quartet, I have them, but by a great variety of different performers. The music itself is robust enough to withstand this sort of expansion, and they sound just fine, as though they were written this way. For those who are a bit timid about transcriptions, don't worry about these, I think you will quite enjoy them!

Gurn - well, my first experience in hearing these clarinet transcriptions; curious by your comment that there were 6 of these arrangements - looked on Amazon and found the ones shown below:  1) Naxos - 2 works - same as on the Veilhan; 2) United Classics - same 3; 3) Signum - same w/ different K numbers; 4) NCA - same 3; and 5) Meridian - same 3 - covered 12 pages on Amazon and found these 5 recordings which all have the same works as on the Veilhan CD - do you have any recommendations for the other three clarinet quartet transcriptions?  Probably OOP and/or super $$ on the Amazon MP - thanks for any information.  Dave

     

 

[Jo498]

The United Classics and the NCA seem different issues of the same recording (I have the NCA). While I am not positively aware of more such arrangements, all imaginable kinds of arrangements abound in the classical and early romantic era and I would not be surprised if someone like Dieter Kloecker had unearthed another bunch of simular works. (I also played some movements from those Mozart violin sonatas as clarinet duets with my teacher many years ago, but these were probably even later arrangements for private and teaching purposes)

There are Haydn string quartets arranged for "clarinet quartet" by Gambaro who even re-grouped movements from different quartets into those works (Kloecker recorded them for MDG), e.g. a B flat major quartet starts with the first mvmt from the "sunrise" quartet op.76/4 but the following movements are taken from other earlier Haydn quartets!

I might get this at some stage but when I considered it some time ago I was torn between fascination and repulsion...

If you like the clarinet, there are more pieces for such a line-up by Rosetti, Danzi and others. The most famous ones are somewhat later pieces by Bernhard Henrik Crusell from the early 19th century. (I just learned that Crusell was Finnish I had always filed him as Swedish...)

Not with clarinet but I should probably link to my post in another thread on Richter's early classical (ca. 1757-1768) string quartets:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,13574.msg931933.html#new

[kishnevi]

I presume Reicha makes it into this thread.
[asin]B014VP0HGG[/asin]
New release by a new PI chamber ensemble.
Sounds encouraging.
Works recorded are the Quintets in G and BFlat, Op. 88/3 and Op. 100/6, with an Adagio for cor anglais [and other wind instruments]  in between.
The recording is described as part of a prize won at the 2013 York(England) International Early Music Young Artists competition.

[Gurn Blanston]

I presume Reicha makes it into this thread.
[asin]B014VP0HGG[/asin]
New release by a new PI chamber ensemble.
Sounds encouraging.
Works recorded are the Quintets in G and BFlat, Op. 88/3 and Op. 100/6, with an Adagio for cor anglais [and other wind instruments]  in between.
The recording is described as part of a prize won at the 2013 York(England) International Early Music Young Artists competition.

Absolutely! We want it. Thanks for the notice, Jeffrey. 

[Pretorious]

I presume Reicha makes it into this thread.
[asin]B014VP0HGG[/asin]
New release by a new PI chamber ensemble.
Sounds encouraging.
Works recorded are the Quintets in G and BFlat, Op. 88/3 and Op. 100/6, with an Adagio for cor anglais [and other wind instruments]  in between.
The recording is described as part of a prize won at the 2013 York(England) International Early Music Young Artists competition.

Looks very interesting! Beautiful painting too. Anyone know the artist? I've found a lot of great art this way, as well.

[SonicMan46]

Looks very interesting! Beautiful painting too. Anyone know the artist? I've found a lot of great art this way, as well.

Cover image: View of the Seine in Paris (1820) by Giuseppe Canella (1788–1847) By permission of Bridgeman Images (Source).

Just spent a week 'on and off' listening to the 10-CD box shown below - would enjoy listening to that new recording - Dave

[Pretorious]

Cover image: View of the Seine in Paris (1820) by Giuseppe Canella (1788–1847) By permission of Bridgeman Images (Source).

Just spent a week 'on and off' listening to the 10-CD box shown below - would enjoy listening to that new recording - Dave

Oh excellent, thank you SonicMan, much obliged! That set from CPO is terrific, too. I've been meaning to go back and listen to many of those works as they are very enjoyable and rewarding.

There is a set of his string quartets currently being recorded and they too are of high interest. Check them out if you haven't already; very good stuff, and very much neglected.

[asin]B00CLFYWCO[/asin]

[SonicMan46]

Oh excellent, thank you SonicMan, much obliged! That set from CPO is terrific, too. I've been meaning to go back and listen to many of those works as they are very enjoyable and rewarding.

There is a set of his string quartets currently being recorded and they too are of high interest. Check them out if you haven't already; very good stuff, and very much neglected.

Yes - I've seen those 2 'Toccata' CDs of Reicha's String Quartets on Amazon USA but have not purchased yet - I have a quite a bit of his chamber works, so probably should add those two -   Dave

[Scion7]

After spending so much time the past few days discovering Malcolm Arnold, and blasting out Schumann into my backyard as I battled with the shrubbery, I'm kicking back on this soon-to-be-rainy Sunday morning with some of Mozart's works of genius:  K.547 & K.526



0:)


(plug ->  http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,20177.0.html)

[Florestan]

No activity on this thread since November last year? God, the world is going madder and madder every day! 

[Scion7]

Since I was too lazy to get me bum to church:



Beethoven seems to have been in a very happy mood composing Op.87!   
Absolutely brilliant music, recorded in 1977.

[Florestan]

Cross-posted from the WAYLT thread where it´ll soon be buried.



Kyrie in F major KV 33 (1766)

Only the pure heart of a child can supplicate God in such a jocund manner. Haydn would have been delighted to hear it.

Same work, different performance



Dagmar Schellenberger-Ernst (Soprano), Michael-Christfried Winkler (Organ), Herbert Kegel (Conductor)
Leipzig Radio Chorus
Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra

Now I am really confused. Kegel´s version is much slower (3:45) and reverential than Harnoncourt´s (1:38). The differences are striking, it´s as if you´re listening to two different pieces. Who is right? Musically and psychologically my preference goes to Harnoncourt, but is he historically accurate?

EDIT: I see the score is marked Larghetto but Harnconcourt sounds more like Andantino... I think both versions are very good and work equally well, but my romantic self has a soft spot for Harnoncourt. 

Oh, and btw: why is there a metronome marking in the score? Who came up with it? Certainly not Wolfferl neither Leopold. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Cross-posted from the WAYLT thread where it´ll soon be buried.



Kyrie in F major KV 33 (1766)

Only the pure heart of a child can supplicate God in such a jocund manner. Haydn would have been delighted to hear it.

Same work, different performance



Dagmar Schellenberger-Ernst (Soprano), Michael-Christfried Winkler (Organ), Herbert Kegel (Conductor)
Leipzig Radio Chorus
Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra

Now I am really confused. Kegel´s version is much slower (3:45) and reverential than Harnoncourt´s (1:38). The differences are striking, it´s as if you´re listening to two different pieces. Who is right? Musically and psychologically my preference goes to Harnoncourt, but is he historically accurate?

EDIT: I see the score is marked Larghetto but Harnconcourt sounds more like Andantino... I think both versions are very good and work equally well, but my romantic self has a soft spot for Harnoncourt. 

Oh, and btw: why is there a metronome marking in the score? Who came up with it? Certainly not Wolfferl neither Leopold. 

I am also very fond of the Harnoncourt version. For masses written in Salzburg post 1772, swifter is likely more accurate also, since the Archbishop decreed that an entire mass, music included, couldn't last longer than (45 minutes? I think that's right). Anyway, there wasn't time to dawdle over it. My guess would be that Kegel performed it more slowly because it seems like the natural thing to do, being more reverential and all.

I have another complete set of Mozart masses on period instruments which, IMO, exceeds Harnoncourt even. I have never done any sort of head-to-head comparison on them for time or tempo, it isn't my thing so much as listening to them is. This is Peter Neumann's set which got started on Virgin and then absorbed into EMI.

[asin]B005BC18JO[/asin]

Someone here rec'd it to me and I am pleased to have scooped it up. For me, the point of variety is not that this or that version is better or righter, it merely reflects actual differences that existed then (and now) in the way performances are realized. And man, there are some differences in Mozart masses! 

[Florestan]

Thanks for replying, Gurn.

My guess would be that Kegel performed it more slowly because it seems like the natural thing to do, being more reverential and all.

Probably you´re right. It works, but swifter works better, IMO.

I have another complete set of Mozart masses on period instruments which, IMO, exceeds Harnoncourt even. I have never done any sort of head-to-head comparison on them for time or tempo, it isn't my thing so much as listening to them is. This is Peter Neumann's set which got started on Virgin and then absorbed into EMI.

[asin]B005BC18JO[/asin]

Someone here rec'd it to me and I am pleased to have scooped it up. For me, the point of variety is not that this or that version is better or righter, it merely reflects actual differences that existed then (and now) in the way performances are realized. And man, there are some differences in Mozart masses! 

I have it in this incarnation:



and I already checked it but it has only the masses. That Kyrie KV 33 is a stand alone piece, written in Paris.

There is a Youtube performance with the Arnold-Schoenber-Chor which is roughly at the same speed as Harnoncourt. Worth checking out as well.

[Karl Henning]

Thank you both.

http://www.youtube.com/v/3ee0rwFaSsE

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for replying, Gurn.

Probably you´re right. It works, but swifter works better, IMO.

I have it in this incarnation:



and I already checked it but it has only the masses. That Kyrie KV 33 is a stand alone piece, written in Paris.

There is a Youtube performance with the Arnold-Schoenber-Chor which is roughly at the same speed as Harnoncourt. Worth checking out as well.

Yes, even the 10 disk version doesn't have that one. Curious how K 33 could have been written as late as Paris, the family had already left there by the time of K 10-15. Chronologic anomaly, it seems.   I should check out that Gardiner you mentioned, I like them generally.

Personal taste is such a major component of what we think of as quality. I read reviews all the time by people who say Harnoncourt sucks because he "flies right through" something or other, and yet you and I prefer it that way. There is certainly a middle ground in terms of tempo where ensemble and phrasing are all just right for everyone. I wonder if anyone has ever found it?