Gurn's Classical Corner

Started by Gurn Blanston, February 22, 2009, 07:05:20 AM

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Gurn Blanston

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Jo498

Actually the rules in Salzburg were more like 25-30 minutes of music at most for mass (cf. e.g. KV 317) with some exceptions for the elaborate festive masses. (But the c minor fragment might have never been performed; it lasts almost an hour and a complete mass would have been 80 min. I guess)
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on September 14, 2016, 06:23:11 AM
I should check out that Gardiner you mentioned, I like them generally.

I mentioned no Gardiner.  :D

This is what I mentioned:

Quote from: karlhenning on September 14, 2016, 05:30:56 AM
Thank you both.

http://www.youtube.com/v/3ee0rwFaSsE

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Jo498 on September 14, 2016, 06:51:49 AM
Actually the rules in Salzburg were more like 25-30 minutes of music at most for mass (cf. e.g. KV 317) with some exceptions for the elaborate festive masses. (But the c minor fragment might have never been performed; it lasts almost an hour and a complete mass would have been 80 min. I guess)

Yes, I couldn't remember the exact number, but it was tiny compared to Vienna. They clearly had to zip right along to include all of the music in an average mass. Just as an aside, the Archbishop also didn't allow "telescoping" the Kyrie and Gloria movements, so when they performed Joseph Haydn's missa brevis to St John of God, for example, Michael Haydn needed to take the Gloria and "unzip" it, as it were, into a full sized Gloria. That sort of thing can have only added to teh temporal pressure the musicians felt. :)

8)

PS - the mass lasted longer than the music. Just sayin'
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Jo498

#3264
Last week I got this disc with 4 quartets (harpsichord+strings op.7,1-3 and op.14,1 - it's a wonderful disc but quite short <60 min) by Johann Schobert, a German early classical composer who died in 1767 from mushroom poisoning (together with several friends and family members). His life is poorly documented; his birth year is usually given as 1735 making him a contemporary of Haydn and the youngest Bach son, but one also finds 1720 and as late as 1740. (His birthplace is also unknown, most likely seems Silesia, but Nuremberg or the Alsace region are also possible. From about 1760 until his death he lived in Paris and worked at the court of Louis XV.) In any case the music was probably written in the early/mid 1760s. I find them quite remarkable. They are within the "gallant"/early classical style but more expressive than your standard rococo (e.g. Joh. Chr. Bach) and also more "fully voiced" than simplistic melody+accompaniment. Anyone who likes early/middle Haydn should give them a try. Brosse has another disc with trios but this was too expensive for me and there is another recital with quartets and trios on harmonia mundi.

[asin]B000024056[/asin]

[asin]B00002405J[/asin] [asin]B000E3J3Q0[/asin]
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

SonicMan46

Quote from: Jo498 on September 17, 2016, 12:47:18 AM
Last week I got this disc with 4 quartets (harpsichord+strings) by Johann Schobert, a German early classical composer who died in 1767 from mushroom poisoning (together with several friends and family members). His life is poorly documented; his birth year is usually given as 1735 making him a contemporary of Haydn and the youngest Bach son, but one also finds 1720 and as late as 1740. (His birthplace is also unknown, most likely seems Silesia, but Nuremberg or the Alsace region are also possible. From about 1760 until his death he lived in Paris and worked at the court of Louis XV.) In any case the music was probably written in the early/mid 1760s. I find them quite remarkable. They are within the "gallant"/early classical style but more expressive than your standard rococo (e.g. Joh. Chr. Bach) and also more "fully voiced" than simplistic melody+accompaniment. Anyone who likes early/middle Haydn should give them a try. Brosse has another disc with trios but this was too expensive for me and there is another recital with quartets and trios on harmonia mundi.

Boy, I've not thought about Johann Schobert (c. 1735-1767) in a while but remember the mushroom poisoning - those Quartet discs look interesting - I have just the two CDs shown below and will put them on today for a listen.  Dave :)

   

Florestan

Quote from: Jo498 on September 17, 2016, 12:47:18 AM
[asin]B000024056[/asin]

[asin]B00002405J[/asin] [asin]B000E3J3Q0[/asin]

I have all three of them (plus the two below) and I strongly second the recommendation.


Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Florestan on September 18, 2016, 12:56:21 AM
I have all three of them (plus the two below) and I strongly second the recommendation.



I really like the looks of this one, it would fit very well into my sonatas collection. I know Schobert from yet another disk, not shown here, by the Four Nations Ensemble on Gaudeamus of 4 trio sonatas of Opus 16, as well as the Banchini disk. Adding in that solo sonatas on hammerflügel would be perfect! :)

8)

[asin]B0000030OZ[/asin]
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Florestan

Well, just today I´ve got a new one:



:D 8)
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Florestan on September 18, 2016, 07:09:05 AM
Well, just today I´ve got a new one:



:D 8)

Nice. Are you streaming those or downloading, or do you actually find the disk somewhere? I ask because finding the disk somewhere can be a bitch!  For example, on your earlier post, I googled "mario martinoli schobert amazon" and literally every Amazon in the world except Amazon USA came up with it. The only US outlet I could fins was CDUniverse and they were backordering it. I know I can be more cosmopolitan and order from The World, but it is nice not to have to. *sigh*.  I know, I'm just a whiner. Well, hard cheese. >:(   :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Jo498

Are the ASV issues certainly post-bronzing era? I have become wary about used ASV and hyperion discs unless I am completely sure they are sufficiently recent issues not to suffer from the bronzing problem.

There is also a disc with keyboard sonatas by Brigitte Haudebourg who apparently recorded quite a bit of lesser known 18th century keyboard music (also Benda, Kozeluch, Mehul, Eckard... some names I never encountered before).

[asin]B00B0XUTRK[/asin]

In any case it is a pity that of the little Schobert there is most is expensive and/or out of print.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

Cross post from WAYLT. Not strictly Classical but I´ll take the risk of being rebuked.  :)

Quote from: Florestan on September 19, 2016, 04:10:09 AM





Having listened to PCs 1, 3 and 4 I think Schumann´s harsh judgment on Herz is unfair, and probably biased. There´s drama in the first movements, lyricism and poetry aplenty in the slow movements and infectious, ebullient jollity in the finales. What is conspicuously lacking is any pretension to, or attempt at, profound philosophy and deep psychology --- and all the better, I say. I think Gurn would like them just as much as I did.



Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Jo498 on September 18, 2016, 08:20:52 AM
Are the ASV issues certainly post-bronzing era? I have become wary about used ASV and hyperion discs unless I am completely sure they are sufficiently recent issues not to suffer from the bronzing problem.

There is also a disc with keyboard sonatas by Brigitte Haudebourg who apparently recorded quite a bit of lesser known 18th century keyboard music (also Benda, Kozeluch, Mehul, Eckard... some names I never encountered before).

[asin]B00B0XUTRK[/asin]

In any case it is a pity that of the little Schobert there is most is expensive and/or out of print.

The one of Opus 16 that I posted I bought brand new in 2004 or 05, and I am pretty sure this was later than the Bronze Age.  Mine still looks brand new. The only problems I've ever had with bronzing came from Hyperion. Since the disk(s) I had problems with were now OOP, they sent me FLAC's of them, and I burned a disk and put in the jewel boxes. Not the ideal solution, but better than a sharp stick in the eye, which is what I had expected. I hate bronzing...  >:( 

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Florestan on September 19, 2016, 06:24:01 AM
Cross post from WAYLT. Not strictly Classical but I´ll take the risk of being rebuked.  :)

Having listened to PCs 1, 3 and 4 I think Schumann´s harsh judgment on Herz is unfair, and probably biased. There´s drama in the first movements, lyricism and poetry aplenty in the slow movements and infectious, ebullient jollity in the finales. What is conspicuously lacking is any pretension to, or attempt at, profound philosophy and deep psychology --- and all the better, I say. I think Gurn would like them just as much as I did.

Probably would be too prolix for me, although I like a good tune as much as anyone.  :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Jo498

bronzing is only until mid-1990s or so, anything post 2000 should certainly be safe. But I recently managed to get an ASV disc used (Haydn quartets with Lindays Q) that was bronzed. I had thought that the disc would be newer than it actually was and had forgotten about bronzing having affected also ASV in the 1990s...
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on September 19, 2016, 08:21:42 AM
Probably would be too prolix for me, although I like a good tune as much as anyone.  :)

8)

Well, here are some timings:

Piano Concerto no. 5 in F minor op. 180 - 15:59
Piano Concerto no. 7 in B minor op. 207 - 17:50
Piano Concerto no. 8 in A-flat major op. 217 - 14:14

Mozart is way more prolix than that.  :D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

This is a peach.



All three are exquisite but the second divertimento is deliciously hilarious, or hilariously delicious: the very idea of ending a Viennese divertimento with a kazatchok is so incongruous as to already provoke laughter. As for the movement itself, it is guaranteed to bring the house down in a general outburst of good clean fun.

Highly recommended.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

SonicMan46

Quote from: Florestan on September 20, 2016, 01:01:58 AM
This is a peach.

 

All three are exquisite but the second divertimento is deliciously hilarious, or hilariously delicious: the very idea of ending a Viennese divertimento with a kazatchok is so incongruous as to already provoke laughter. As for the movement itself, it is guaranteed to bring the house down in a general outburst of good clean fun.

Highly recommended.

Need to 'pull out' my small Cartellieri collection - own about 7 discs, including the one shown above, left - interestingly, Dieter Klocker is on all except the Symphonies (added above for those interested in his non-windy orchestral music) - Dave :)

Jo498

#3278
I finally found this very nice disc (the edition that does not show properly but the "white one" might be easier to find) at a good price. 3 string quartets by the Jadin brothers, the precocious Hyacinthe who died of tuberculosis at 24 (1776-1800) and his older brother Louis-Emmanuel who lived into his mid-80s (1768-1853!). Both wrote quite a bit more chamber music, most of which remains unrecorded to my knowledge.

[asin]B000003I0V[/asin] [asin]B00005S7WU[/asin]

I hope to get the harmonia mundi disc with Schobert chamber music and another one with music by Padre Soler today or in monday's post...
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Jo498 on September 19, 2016, 08:27:33 AM
bronzing is only until mid-1990s or so, anything post 2000 should certainly be safe. But I recently managed to get an ASV disc used (Haydn quartets with Lindays Q) that was bronzed. I had thought that the disc would be newer than it actually was and had forgotten about bronzing having affected also ASV in the 1990s...

On that note, just last week I got an old Hyperion (English Orpheus Series) from ca 1995, which had only the lightest bronzing on the label side and none apparent on the playing side, and yet my computer drive couldn't even see it, while my player just put out a stream of static on top of the faintest background music. I am really nervous to take a chance on some of these older disks, which I would really hop on otherwise. :-\

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)