Wagner's Valhalla

Started by Greta, April 07, 2007, 08:09:57 PM

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J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: M forever on January 21, 2008, 07:58:49 PM
*"Knacker", literally "cracker", is a common demeaning expression for old people in German, probably on account of their joints cracking.

In Dutch it's the same:  (oude) 'knakker'. The English would say 'old geezer' or 'old fart'.

Johan
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Sarastro

Domingo was born in Spain, and moved to Mexico at age 8 with his family, who ran a zarzuela company.

M forever

Quote from: PSmith08 on January 21, 2008, 09:24:29 PM
I probably used "even" in the sense of the OED definition 9(b), "Attached to a word or clause expressing time, manner, place, or any attendant circumstance." Definition 9 is, in full, "Intimating that the sentence expresses an extreme case of a more general proposition implied (= Fr. même). Prefixed (in later use often parenthetically postfixed) to the particular word, phrase, or clause, on which the extreme character of the statement or supposition depends." So, then, the concert performance would be the general proposition, and the concert performance with the MP would be the manner in which the general proposition would be executed.

I could get really slippery and say that I was using an archaism pursuant to OED def. 8, "Prefixed to a subject, object, or predicate, or to the expression of a qualifying circumstance, to emphasize its identity. Obs. exc. arch. Also in 16-17th c. (hence still arch. after Bible use) serving to introduce an epexegesis; = ‘namely’, ‘that is to say’."

Or, we could just agree that I used "even" in the sense that such an arrangement would be highly non-trivial, and pursuant to OED def. 9(c).

Huh?

marvinbrown

Quote from: Haffner on January 21, 2008, 02:14:39 PM




My fiancee was in the other room saying her Rosary when she heard me making ooOOOoooOOOoooooOOOOOooo sounds. She came out, saying I interrupted her. She was weirded-out that I might be ogling some pretty girl on the internet. But no, I couldn't help but be reduced to drooling when I saw Marvin's Parsifal acquisition. Marvin, that is one extremely cool recording I'm dying to have.

  Haffner, I am so sorry to have created a "potential" problem with your loved one- not that Wagner's music could ever replace the love of a woman (could he??), but yes you might want to jot this recording down as well as the '64 Knapp (read PSmith08's review) as future purchases.  I must admit that I discovered this 1962 recording by accident.  I really did not need another Parsifal (I have Karajan's recording as well as the Levine DVD and have seen countless others)  but this 1962 Knapp Parsifal was screaming: Buy me!! Buy me!! I just couldn't resist.  Tonight I shall listen to it.

  marvin   

PSmith08

Quote from: marvinbrown on January 22, 2008, 05:11:01 AM
  Haffner, I am so sorry to have created a "potential" problem with your loved one- not that Wagner's music could ever replace the love of a woman (could he??), but yes you might want to jot this recording down as well as the '64 Knapp (read PSmith08's review) as future purchases.  I must admit that I discovered this 1962 recording by accident.  I really did not need another Parsifal (I have Karajan's recording as well as the Levine DVD and have seen countless others)  but this 1962 Knapp Parsifal was screaming: Buy me!! Buy me!! I just couldn't resist.  Tonight I shall listen to it.

  marvin   

I think Wagner wrote a short romp about what happens when someone forswears love for material gain.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: PSmith08 on January 22, 2008, 05:29:41 AM
I think Wagner wrote a short romp about what happens when someone forswears love for material gain.

I think I know it. A delightful miniature.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

marvinbrown

Quote from: Jezetha on January 22, 2008, 05:46:33 AM
I think I know it. A delightful miniature.

  Yes 14+ hours that seem to go by in minutes  ;).

  marvin

PSmith08

Quote from: Jezetha on January 22, 2008, 05:46:33 AM
I think I know it. A delightful miniature.

Really a marvel of economy of form it is. Indeed, only rarely has someone said so much so briefly.

longears

Quote from: PSmith08 on January 22, 2008, 05:29:41 AM
I think Wagner wrote a short romp about what happens when someone forswears love for material gain.
Quote from: Jezetha on January 22, 2008, 05:46:33 AM
I think I know it. A delightful miniature.
Quote from: marvinbrown on January 22, 2008, 05:49:09 AM
  Yes 14+ hours that seem to go by in minutes  ;).
Quote from: PSmith08 on January 22, 2008, 05:52:20 AM
Really a marvel of economy of form it is. Indeed, only rarely has someone said so much so briefly.

I see I'm not the only one here who loves irony. Y'all give the lie to the common belief that Wagnereenies have no sense of humor!

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: longears on January 22, 2008, 05:59:50 AM
I see I'm not the only one here who loves irony. Y'all give the lie to the common belief that Wagnereenies have no sense of humor!

Wagner's first wife Minna had a parrot she had trained to say 'Richard Wagner is a bad man! Richard Wagner is a bad man!'

Johan
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

PSmith08

Quote from: longears on January 22, 2008, 05:59:50 AM
I see I'm not the only one here who loves irony. Y'all give the lie to the common belief that Wagnereenies have no sense of humor!

What? Who's kidding? Wagnerites are a dour lot, given to much solemn pontification and angry disputation over orchestral transparency and appropriate tempo for, oh say, the finale of Das Rheingold.

Indeed, Wagner is what happens to you if you don't play sports as a child.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: PSmith08 on January 22, 2008, 06:29:45 AM

Wagner is what happens to you if you don't play sports as a child.

How did you know?!  ???
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

PSmith08

Quote from: Jezetha on January 22, 2008, 06:34:53 AM
How did you know?!  ???

J'accuse! (Myself, too)

Wagner requires a personality that is rarely forged on the baseball diamond, gridiron, or pitch.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: PSmith08 on January 22, 2008, 06:42:28 AM
J'accuse! (Myself, too)

Wagner requires a personality that is rarely forged on the baseball diamond, gridiron, or pitch.

But what about all those cheerleaders in Parsifal, Second Act?

But serious - you do need a certain introspection to like Wagner (although he didn't compose 'loner's music', as a fellow member of the Havergal Brian Society once said about Brian, more or less correctly...)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Sean

Any thoughts on Klingsor's dark magic that is shattered by Kundry's kiss, ie Parsifal's carnal knowledge? Wagner and Shakespeare are both interested in love and foolishness- eg Parsifal and Siegfried(?) and R&J/ MSMD.

The dark magic is the state of mind of the young misguided man who doesn't see the common sense, non-rational means of proceeding with a girl... Even at 42 Wagner the great lover said he'd never had real love, and Shakespeare was still writing about wanting to be set free from Prospero's books at the end of his career.

marvinbrown

Quote from: marvinbrown on January 22, 2008, 05:49:09 AM
  Yes 14+ hours that seem to go by in minutes  ;).

  marvin

  Am I the only person here who feels that the Ring isn't long enough  :o??  And yes you do need to have a certain introspection to like Wagner.  That said Wagner is not for the faint hearted. I like to think of him as the Alpha Male of composers- in short that guy's music is pure testosterone!!  If you're looking for "dainty" tunes Wagner ain't your man!!

  marvin

marvinbrown

#296
Quote from: PSmith08 on January 22, 2008, 06:42:28 AM
J'accuse! (Myself, too)

Wagner requires a personality that is rarely forged on the baseball diamond, gridiron, or pitch.

  Not so sure about that PSmith08, I ski (steep black runs), play tennis and soccer. The First Act of Siegfried (such powerful music can be very inspiring) gives me an adrenaline rush unlike any other!

  marvin

Sean

Wagner is extraordinarily masculine music- put it on before you take your girl out, murderously decisive, thrusting, ruthless, intuitive, dark, domineering. I haven't heard the notion that the Ring is too short before, but the libretto is basically weird and laconic, as all his librettos, suggesting so much more.

By the way Marvin I think you were asking about the Bach cantatas a while back and whether you'd got the measure of them or not. Well I do not think they're invested with Bach's greastest thought- they're good but not great music, as you sensed to begin with...

marvinbrown

Quote from: Sean on January 22, 2008, 07:28:22 AM

By the way Marvin I think you were asking about the Bach cantatas a while back and whether you'd got the measure of them or not. Well I do not think they're invested with Bach's greastest thought- they're good but not great music, as you sensed to begin with...

  Yes Sean, I gave up on the cantatas.  I have about 30 of them, the most popular favorite  ones and worst yet they are expensive to collect.  I'd much rather save money and buy the Karajan Ring for example than more cantatas.

  marvin

Sean

Marv, I notice you have the Knappertzbusch Parsifal, I've heard it, along with the Levine and Jurowski live, but I know it from the Karajan, which is entirely in a class of its own.