Wagner's Valhalla

[uffeviking]

When everybody gets back to the topic - that's the line on the top, next to Subject: "Re. Wagner's Valhalla", - this thread will get unlocked.

[(poco) Sforzando]

When everybody gets back to the topic - that's the line on the top, next to Subject: "Re. Wagner's Valhalla", - this thread will get unlocked.

Is it unlocked now?

[Haffner]

It is harder than it looks. I have tried to do it several times and always failed.

I have extraordinary talent at it, almost completely inherited. WhhheeeEEEEeeEEEEEee!

[Steve]

Exactly my point. To you, it wouldn't make a difference. Don't you feel like a complete idiot when you pontifcate about stuff you don't even understand?

So his analysis is moot because he doesn't speak the language?

[m_gigena]

When everybody gets back to the topic - that's the line on the top, next to Subject: "Re. Wagner's Valhalla", - this thread will get unlocked.

I don't get it. How is that everybody can go back to topic while the thread is closed?
It looks more like a warning to me: keep it clean, do not disturb the nuns, or else...

[uffeviking]

Manuel, you got it ! It was a warning. 

Now can we read something about Wagner's Valhalla?

[PerfectWagnerite]

I listened to about two minutes- didn't like the conducting or the singing, or the whole attitude, and I'd say opera's in as much trouble as the rest of art.

Okay. I am listening to another Met performance of this opera: this time with Levine conducting from a live performance in 2000 with Voigt (again) and Domingo as Sieglinde and Siegmund respectively and objectively speaking there is no serious comparison as the Levine is superior in almost every regards. The final part of the duet starting with 'Du Bist der Lenz' should take the house down and it does here. Don't get me wrong Maazel is still very good but if there is ever a time for some over-the-top kind of conducting this is it, and Levine provides just that.

So I can see why you don't particularly warm to Maazel's conducting.

[Anne]

About 6 -7 years ago some of us were listening to the Met Saturday afternoon broadcast of Die Meistersinger with Levine conducting.  I forgot who the singers were but the orchestra was our main focus.  He had those players so pumped up that from our homes we felt like the excitement was taking us right up through the roof.  It was the most thrilling broadcast I have ever heard.

At the end of Gotterdammerung after the singers have stopped singing, Wagner wrote a lot of music for the orchestra.  From my perspective, that helps the audience come back to earth after being so absorbed in the drama; he did the same for Die Meistersinger.

[PerfectWagnerite]

6 or 7 years ago you likely heard Morris, Heppner and Mattila in Meistersinger.

[knight66]

Chandos are preparing to issue a BBC recording of a performance in English of Meistersingers conducted by Reginald Goodall.

This was one of a series of performances that were very highly thought of. It will be interesting to hear whether it is a case of rose tinted glasses.

Mike

[Sergeant Rock]

Chandos are preparing to issue a BBC recording of a performance in English of Meistersingers conducted by Reginald Goodall.

It'll be a box with ten CDs, right Knight? 

Sarge

[Chaszz]

Chandos are preparing to issue a BBC recording of a performance in English of Meistersingers conducted by Reginald Goodall.

This was one of a series of performances that were very highly thought of. It will be interesting to hear whether it is a case of rose tinted glasses.

Mike

Goodell's 'Ring' in English is excelent, one of the best interpretations, IMO. 

[Sean]

Hi Perfect, I really needed to listen to more of the Maazel.

[knight66]

It'll be a box with ten CDs, right Knight? 

Sarge

I like it....I like it.

As an aside. For a long time I had a CD issued by Chandos of most of the final act of Gotterdammerung in English and conducted by Goodall. It was a studio performance. Someone removed it from my collection. For a long time I tried to get a replacement. Then in London a few weeks ago, I found it in a bargain bin, just one copy with my name on it. It was as good as I recalled.Flowing and dramatic, very well sung, (men's chorus apart), it is now happily restored to me. I probably have about 120 Wagner discs, most of complete works, but this one sticks out. I much prefer it to the live discs by Goodall as I so dislike the recessed sound on them. The balance on this long extract is excellent.

Mike

[marvinbrown]

Chandos are preparing to issue a BBC recording of a performance in English of Meistersingers conducted by Reginald Goodall.

This was one of a series of performances that were very highly thought of. It will be interesting to hear whether it is a case of rose tinted glasses.

Mike

  Mike I don't think I like the idea of Wagner's operas being sung in English. Not sure if others on this forum would agree with me  .

  marvin

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

  Mike I don't think I like the idea of Wagner's operas being sung in English. Not sure if others on this forum would agree with me 

I think Wagner sung in the original German is best. There is such a close match between words and music, Wagner being composer and librettist at the same time, that anything else is always worse.

I uploaded an interesting article about Andrew Porter's Ring translation for those with no access to JSTOR:

http://www.mediafire.com/?0yb9bspfsbn

[Sergeant Rock]

As an aside. For a long time I had a CD issued by Chandos of most of the final act of Gotterdammerung in English and conducted by Goodall. It was a studio performance. Someone removed it from my collection. For a long time I tried to get a replacement. Then in London a few weeks ago, I found it in a bargain bin, just one copy with my name on it. It was as good as I recalled.Flowing and dramatic, very well sung, (men's chorus apart), it is now happily restored to me. I probably have about 120 Wagner discs, most of complete works, but this one sticks out. I much prefer it to the live discs by Goodall as I so dislike the recessed sound on them. The balance on this long extract is excellent.

Interesting. I've not heard that recording, Mike...in fact, I know very little of Goodall's Wagner. I own The Valkyrie and that's it. A member at the Gramophone forum swears by Goodall's Parsifal. I would like to hear it someday.

Sarge

[Haffner]

  Mike I don't think I like the idea of Wagner's operas being sung in English. Not sure if others on this forum would agree with me  .

  marvin

Sean's contention about the cadential and harmonic bases being linked to the structure of the German language might have something to it.  I haven't had alot of experience hearing the Ring in English (just some of the Remedios), but what I have heard tends to be below standard overall. Of course, I'm keeping in mind it may have been myriad other factors, and perhaps someone can help me with this.

The Ring in English (to me ,at least) tends to take something very significant away. Whether it's the deeply set "cultural/ethnic" whaddever, I don't know. I do know that, just for me at least, much of the heroic atmosphere seemed to have been minimized. Of course that could be just because I really love a super-"Heroic" Wagner.


Plus, I missed the pronounced German rolled "r"s in the English!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Sean's contention about the cadential and harmonic bases being linked to the structure of the German language might have something to it.

I read once in a (somewhat controversial, I later found out) study about the genesis of the 'Ring' by Curt von Westernhagen that Wagner's harmony really follows the syntax of his verse - so, for instance, if a sentence isn't finished, he uses a half-cadence. But perhaps this is word-setting as it should be? I don't know about Mozart's practice. Or Verdi's, for that matter.

[Haffner]

I read once in a (somewhat controversial, I later found out) study about the genesis of the 'Ring' by Curt von Westernhagen that Wagner's harmony really follows the syntax of his verse - so, for instance, if a sentence isn't finished, he uses a half-cadence. But perhaps this is word-setting as it should be? I don't know about Mozart's practice. Or Verdi's, for that matter.

Yeah,  I noticed that in the German there are many instances of Wagner finishing and beginning singer's phrases with the orchestra. The orchestra really does seem like another character in Wagner's operas...see the idea of "Greek Choruses".