Wagner's Valhalla

Started by Greta, April 07, 2007, 08:09:57 PM

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Haffner

Quote from: knight on March 25, 2008, 11:10:17 PM
I think that the Kleiber studio recording succeeds well in providing a contrast to the Bohm. It is like a narcotic experience, a trance...which does not mean it is slow. But it has a lot of ebb and flow.

I enjoy the studio Karajan a great deal and his act 3 is singular due to the partnership with Vickers, that is an unusually intense experience.

Mike



Each act of the Kleiber has high points, but the 3rd really grabbed my attention forcefully. Even though I have trouble hearing the orchestra at times in the first two acts, the third is where everything came together on all levels.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Haffner on March 26, 2008, 02:49:32 AM


Each act of the Kleiber has high points, but the 3rd really grabbed my attention forcefully. Even though I have trouble hearing the orchestra at times in the first two acts, the third is where everything came together on all levels.

Invisible orchestra - fair enough.
Invisible theatre - the better option, often.
Inaudible orchestra- definitely not!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Haffner

Quote from: Jezetha on March 26, 2008, 03:50:12 AM
Invisible orchestra - fair enough.
Invisible theatre - the better option, often.
Inaudible orchestra- definitely not!


This is an excellent point.

knight66

Quote from: Haffner on March 26, 2008, 02:49:32 AM


Each act of the Kleiber has high points, but the 3rd really grabbed my attention forcefully. Even though I have trouble hearing the orchestra at times in the first two acts, the third is where everything came together on all levels.

I am going to have to go back and listen to that recording. I thought there was a good balance with the orchestra. I have read that the recording was done without the two main singers being present in the studio at the same time. It sounds utterly unlikely to me. I would not have thought that Kleiber was the kind to allow this kind of arrangement.

I think Karajan countenanced it in his EMI Dutchman for at least some of the scenes, also I thought it was recorded over a period of about 18 months.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Haffner

Quote from: knight on March 26, 2008, 11:17:51 AM
I am going to have to go back and listen to that recording. I thought there was a good balance with the orchestra. I have read that the recording was done without the two main singers being present in the studio at the same time. It sounds utterly unlikely to me. I would not have thought that Kleiber was the kind to allow this kind of arrangement.

I think Karajan countenanced it in his EMI Dutchman for at least some of the scenes, also I thought it was recorded over a period of about 18 months.

Mike



Mike I think I might have unknowingly misrepresented myself. I was talking about the Kleiber Bayreuth performance. The sound is extremely sketchy, though the singing can be quite inspiring. I am now really curious as to the "other" Kleiber; the latter is a studio version? Forgive my duh-ness.

knight66

No, that's OK. I thought it must be my ears, but the studio performance has beautiful sound. Todd knows all three of the Kleiber Tristans and recons both live ones are more exciting than the studio performance. That latter is the only of his performances I know.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Todd

Quote from: knight on March 26, 2008, 02:53:52 PMTodd knows all three of the Kleiber Tristans and recons both live ones are more exciting than the studio performance.


It's more accurate to state that I know three of the seven extant recordings of Tristan under Carlos, which are as follows:

Stuttgart, 1973
Vienna, 1973
Bayreuth, 1974
Bayreuth, 1975
Bayreuth, 1976
La Scala, 1978
Dresden, 1980-82 (DG, studio)


I may have to try one or two of the other options, poor sound be damned.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Haffner

Is anyone familiar with this dvd, and how does it hold up against the Bayreuth and Levine?

Expresso


Are there any good budget recordings of the Ring operas? Not necessarily from the same conductor.
Maybe Furtwangler or Kempe?

Haffner

Quote from: Expresso on March 28, 2008, 02:10:39 PM
Are there any good budget recordings of the Ring operas? Not necessarily from the same conductor.
Maybe Furtwangler or Kempe?



The Krauss Ring Cycle is really good, and relatively inexpensive.

marvinbrown

Quote from: Expresso on March 28, 2008, 02:10:39 PM
Are there any good budget recordings of the Ring operas? Not necessarily from the same conductor.
Maybe Furtwangler or Kempe?

  At one point in my collecting career I bought the Furtwangler RAI  Ring Cycle and paid £35 for it. I discovered that Furtwangler was a remarkable Wagnerian conductor but the less than stellar sound, orchestra (most notably the brass section) and cast have caused me to sell it and buy the Solti recording instead  :-\.  Draw whatever conclusions you may wish from my experience  :-\.

  marvin 

PerfectWagnerite

#491
Looks like they finally got around to releasing this HVK Rheingold on DVD.



The Amazon.com description unfortunately refers to the Chereau Ring (how they make that mistake is anybody's guess). But this Rheingold I saw the end on Youtube and it is excellent. Not sure whether in the future we'll get rest of the cycle.

Here is a link for the youtube cut:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9Mh9XZZ6c

Haffner

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on March 29, 2008, 05:22:46 AM
Looks like they finally got around to releasing this HVK Rheingold on DVD.



The Amazon.com description unfortunately refers to the Chereau Ring (how they make that mistake is anybody's guess). But this Rheingold I saw the end on Youtube and it is excellent. Not sure whether in the future we'll get rest of the cycle.

Here is a link for the youtube cut:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9Mh9XZZ6c



ooOOOOOOooo JA!

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: Haffner on March 29, 2008, 05:28:38 AM


ooOOOOOOooo JA!

Ja indeed my friend. Have you ever seen a more towering and authoritive looking Wotan than Stewart? And even from the limited sound on youtube you can't help but being bowled over by the titanic and burnished playing of the BP.

Anyway I can't wait to see the whole thing.

Haffner

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on March 29, 2008, 05:48:29 AM
Ja indeed my friend. Have you ever seen a more towering and authoritive looking Wotan than Stewart? And even from the limited sound on youtube you can't help but being bowled over by the titanic and burnished playing of the BP.

Anyway I can't wait to see the whole thing.




It went immediately on my wish list before I even went on youtube, thank you so much!

Wendell_E

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on March 29, 2008, 05:22:46 AM
Not sure whether in the future we'll get rest of the cycle.

Rheingold was the only one that was filmed. 
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

uffeviking

Ach! Those Rhein Töchter!  ::) - Naughty Herbert!  >:D

Harry

Well this looks the place where a good and inexpensive Ring cycle could be recommended.........
I am waiting you Wagner addicts.
In a short time I will start with a cd Johan, (Jezetha) will send me, with Choir works or excerpts from Wagners operas.
What next I wonder? :)

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Harry on March 29, 2008, 11:02:30 AM
In a short time I will start with a cd Johan, (Jezetha) will send me, with Choir works or excerpts from Wagners operas.

Choral highlights from Flying Dutchman, Tannhäuser, Lohengrin, Meistersinger, Götterdämmerung and Parsifal - a wonderful collection, that hopefully will spur you on and on into deeper Wagnerian territory...  :)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Expresso

Quote from: marvinbrown on March 28, 2008, 03:04:15 PM
  At one point in my collecting career I bought the Furtwangler RAI  Ring Cycle and paid £35 for it. I discovered that Furtwangler was a remarkable Wagnerian conductor but the less than stellar sound, orchestra (most notably the brass section) and cast have caused me to sell it and buy the Solti recording instead  :-\.  Draw whatever conclusions you may wish from my experience  :-\.

  marvin 


Quote from: Haffner on March 28, 2008, 02:12:23 PM


The Krauss Ring Cycle is really good, and relatively inexpensive.

I'll check some samples from those options, thanks.


Solti's Wagner is way too expensive! I'll probably buy it too sometime in the future, but at the moment i need an cheaper introduction to the Ring. It doesn't have to be a Ring cycle from the same conductor.


What do you think of this one?
Karajan's Die Meistersinger from '51.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/9575668?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist

Is this a live recording? The sample clips sound very good.