Wagner's Valhalla

Started by Greta, April 07, 2007, 08:09:57 PM

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Tsaraslondon

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on July 08, 2008, 11:04:44 AM
A stunning performance by Callas as Isolde in the death scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htsam9HddyI

Who needs supertitles, in fact, who even needs the right language with a voice and expression like this???



And to think that this was recorded at the same sessions at which she recorded Elvira's Mad Scene from I Puritani, with immaculate coloratura and a stunning Eb in alt to finish!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzzIskhjpuk&feature=related

Apologies to those Wagner lovers, who can't take to Bellini. But, please remember that Wagner himself had enormous admiration for Bellini's Norma at least.

\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

rw1883

Today I received "Wagner: The Great Operas from the Bayreuth Festival" on Decca (33-cd set).  I wish they would have picked another Ring and Tristan (I already own them, as do most Wagner fans), but for only $58 (CD universe) it's still well worth the price.  I'm happy the set includes the Sawallisch Dutchman/Tannhauser/Lohengrin which I never bought on Philips (was that the correct label?).  The main drawback is no libretti (they have track summaries instead), but for the price it's expected.  The set is packaged in a small box with cd-sleeves. 

For those that don't own the Bohm Ring/Tristan it's a steal and it's still available at CDuniverse.com for the sale price...http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7664875&style=classical

Paul


uffeviking

Does the set have the 1995 production of Tristan und Isolde with Siegfried Jerusalem and Waltraut Meier?

rw1883

Quote from: uffeviking on July 09, 2008, 07:41:50 PM
Does the set have the 1995 production of Tristan und Isolde with Siegfried Jerusalem and Waltraut Meier?


No, it's the 1966 Tristan with Windgassen & Nilsson with Bohm conducting.

rw1883

Just a little modification on the Wagner set mentioned above: the Rheingold and Siegfried are from 1971 and the Walkure and Gotterdammerung are from 1967.  On the original Philips release the whole set was from 1967.  So at least you get two different performances in the Ring.

Wendell_E

#585
Quote from: rw1883 on July 09, 2008, 08:28:45 PM
Just a little modification on the Wagner set mentioned above: the Rheingold and Siegfried are from 1971 and the Walkure and Gotterdammerung are from 1967.  On the original Philips release the whole set was from 1967.  So at least you get two different performances in the Ring.

The info on the Decca release is wrong.  Böhm didn't conduct the Ring in 1971, Horst Stein did, and Windgassen last sang at the festival in 1970.  Both the original Philips release and the new Decca one come from the 1966 and 1967 festivals.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: rw1883 on July 09, 2008, 08:28:45 PM
Just a little modification on the Wagner set mentioned above: the Rheingold and Siegfried are from 1971 and the Walkure and Gotterdammerung are from 1967.  On the original Philips release the whole set was from 1967.  So at least you get two different performances in the Ring.

Quote from: Wendell_E on July 10, 2008, 02:58:11 AM
The info on the Decca release is wrong.  Böhm didn't conduct the Ring in 1971, Horst Stein did, and Windgassen last sang at the festival in 1970.  Both the original Philips release and the new Decca one come from the 1966 and 1967 festivals.

Wendell is correct. There's a misprint in the Decca booklet. Compare the casts in the Decca booklet with the Philips and you'll see they are identical; or compare a few tracks.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

karlhenning

Hmm. The editor responsible for the mis-print must be one of them Wagner-Haters™, eh, Sarge8)

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: karlhenning on July 10, 2008, 03:33:41 AM
Hmm. The editor responsible for the mis-print must be one of them Wagner-Haters™, eh, Sarge8)

Indubitably...a tactic meant to sow confusion and dissension in the ranks.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

rw1883

#589
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 10, 2008, 03:29:01 AM
Wendell is correct. There's a misprint in the Decca booklet. Compare the casts in the Decca booklet with the Philips and you'll see they are identical; or compare a few tracks.

Sarge

Thanks for the correction about the years and casts for the Ring.  One question though, I always thought the Philips Ring was from 1967 only (at least that what the booklet states for all four operas).  Was that a misprint as well?

Paul

Wendell_E

Quote from: rw1883 on July 10, 2008, 10:15:12 AM
Thanks for the correction about the years and casts for the Ring.  One question though, I always thought the Philips Ring was from 1967 only (at least that what the booklet states for all four operas).  Was that a misprint as well?

Paul

As I understand it, Rheingold and Siegfried are from '66, the others from the next years festival.  I'm not sure why they did it that way (The later Boulez Ring was also from two consecutive years).  Gutrune's solo scene in Act III of Götterdämmerung was cut ( :o) in 1966, but restored in 1967, which would partially explain why the recording of that opera comes from 1967.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

Tsaraslondon

#591
May I make a slightly irreverent, but light hearted observation?

It seems to me that Wagner lovers are a rum lot. For instance, ZB posts a stunning version of Isolde's Liebestod, as sung by Callas in 1949 (at the tender age of 25), and not one person comments on it. Instead they all prattle on about whether Bohm's Ring was recorded in 1967 or 1968, or whether the Philips set was taken from two different series of performances. Do these people actually listen to the music, or do they just enjoy amassing performances of  Der Ring, a time consuming act in itself?

I ask this as someone who enjoys Wagner's music, but who doesn't have the evident passion for the composer that most of the posters in this topic have.






\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

rw1883

#592
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 12, 2008, 07:15:54 AM
May I make a slightly irreverent, but light hearted observation?

It seems to me that Wagner lovers are a rum lot. For instance, ZB posts a stunning version of Isolde's Liebestod, as sung by Callas in 1949 (at the tender age of 25), and not one person comments on it. Instead they all prattle on about whether Bohm's Ring was recorded in 1967 or 1968, or whether the Philips set was taken from two different series of performances. Do these people actually listen to the music, or do they just enjoy amassing performances of  Der Ring, a time consuming act in itself?

I ask this as someone who enjoys Wagner's music, but who doesn't have the evident passion for the composer that most of the posters in this topic have.









I'll take a stab at a relevant and light-hearted response :)...I've been collecting, or I prefer what you wrote, amassing Rings, Tristans, Hollanders, Lohengrins, Tannhausers, Meistersingers, Parsifals, and even a couple of Rienzis for about 12 years now.  I listen to all the recordings I amass numerous times so I can make a better decision on my favorite recordings, singers, and conductors.  That makes the years very important (again, to me) for my collecting (and hopefully not many duplications).

On to Callas, I remember listening to that performance around the time I fell for Wagner's music.  As you say it's an excellent interpretation, especially for her age.  But I find myself going to Leider, Flagstad, Seinemeyer, Traubel, Braun, Grob-Prandl, Modl, Nilsson, Jones, and even Meier over Callas in this particular opera.  It's very hard to get past the Italian translation, but that's just me being stubborn >:(

Now, time to prattle again... ;)


marvinbrown

#593
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 12, 2008, 07:15:54 AM
May I make a slightly irreverent, but light hearted observation?

It seems to me that Wagner lovers are a rum lot. For instance, ZB posts a stunning version of Isolde's Liebestod, as sung by Callas in 1949 (at the tender age of 25), and not one person comments on it. Instead they all prattle on about whether Bohm's Ring was recorded in 1967 or 1968, or whether the Philips set was taken from two different series of performances. Do these people actually listen to the music, or do they just enjoy amassing performances of  Der Ring, a time consuming act in itself?

I ask this as someone who enjoys Wagner's music, but who doesn't have the evident passion for the composer that most of the posters in this topic have.



  Tsaraslondon  8), no one doubts Callas' talents, that's not the issue here.  Personally I like to listen to complete recordings of Wagner's operas and in German.  I also have a tendency to reserve Callas for Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti, Bellini operas.  That does not mean that I do not recognize Callas' talents as a Wagnerian singer.  I will admit it has been a while since I heard Callas in a Wagnerian piece- I should be more attentive  $:)!

  marvin

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: marvinbrown on July 13, 2008, 01:33:29 PM
  Tsaraslondon  8), no one doubts Callas' talents, that's not the issue here.  Personally I like to listen to complete recordings of Wagner's operas and in German.  I also have a tendency to reserve Callas for Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti, Bellini operas.  That does not mean that I do not recognize Callas' talents as a Wagnerian singer.  I will admit it has been a while since I heard Callas in a Wagnerian piece- I should be more attentive  $:)!

  marvin

Well that wasn't really my point. The link that ZB posted could have been to any singer really. I was commenting on the fact that she had posted a link to someone actually performing Wagner, and nobody had even commented on it, either to say they liked it or they didn't. Posters were more concerned with the provenance of Bohm's Bayreuth Ring and showing their Knowledge of recording dates. Am I alone in finding this a little anorak like?



\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

Anne

We may have been remiss in thanking ZB and I will thank her now.  Thanks for your youtube recording, ZB.  I enjoyed it and didn't know it even existed.

I for one am very happy when others sort out dates as they did for Bohm's recordings.  I helps me learn things.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on July 12, 2008, 07:15:54 AM
May I make a slightly irreverent, but light hearted observation?

It seems to me that Wagner lovers are a rum lot. For instance, ZB posts a stunning version of Isolde's Liebestod, as sung by Callas in 1949 (at the tender age of 25), and not one person comments on it. Instead they all prattle on about whether Bohm's Ring was recorded in 1967 or 1968, or whether the Philips set was taken from two different series of performances. Do these people actually listen to the music, or do they just enjoy amassing performances of  Der Ring, a time consuming act in itself?

Who has time to listen to Wagner these days? I'm just a collector...that takes up enough of my time.

Seriously, I operate this way normally: if I have nothing good to say about something, I say nothing. I have no desire to rain on anyone's parade. But since you asked: I don't like Callas's Isolde. All one has to do is listen to Varnay or Flagstad or Norman or Nilsson's videos after Callas's to understand why I feel that way. But it was interesting to see (hear) the bear dancing.  ;)  I thank ZB for that.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

#597
Quote from: rw1883 on July 10, 2008, 10:15:12 AM
Thanks for the correction about the years and casts for the Ring.  One question though, I always thought the Philips Ring was from 1967 only (at least that what the booklet states for all four operas).  Was that a misprint as well?

Paul

For thirty-five years I've been under the impression this Ring was from 1967 (that's what the old Penguin Guides told me as did other reviews). I checked my box of LPs and although the books included are magnificent, they give no performance dates. The booklets in the old CD version I own don't either. This Bayreuth box is the first version of Böhm's Ring I've seen that does give dates. Should Rheingold and Siegfried be 1966? I don't know. Perhaps Wendell will explain.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

karlhenning

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 14, 2008, 03:26:08 PM
Who has time to listen to Wagner these days?

Nor I, Sarge.  Though I should like to, actually.

Not this side of August, I don't think.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: karlhenning on July 14, 2008, 03:48:40 PM
Nor I, Sarge.  Though I should like to, actually.

Not this side of August, I don't think.

It's tough, even when one is retired, to find the three or four or more hours needed to give these works the attention they deserve. Webern is more user friendly  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"