Wagner's Valhalla

Started by Greta, April 07, 2007, 08:09:57 PM

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Coopmv

Bernstein's Wagner - my first Wagner recording ...    ;D

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: knight on March 10, 2009, 03:04:11 PM
From the Gramophone archive; it confirms 1962 as the date of the recording.

Mike

WAGNER. DIE WALKURE. Jon Vickers (ten) Siegmund; Grê Brouwenstijn (sop) Sieglinde; Birgit Nilsson (sop) Briinnhilde; George London (bass-bar) Wotan; Rita Gorr (mez) Fricka; David Ward (bass) Hunding; Marie Collier (sop) Gerhilde; Judith Pierce (sop) Helmwige; Julia Malyon (sop) Ortlinde; Mar- greta Elkins (mez) Waltraute; Josephine Veasey (mez) Rossweisse; Noreen Berry (mez) Siegrune; Maureen Guy (mez) Grimgerde; Joan Edwards (contr) Schwertleite; London Symphony Orchestra / Erich Leinsdorf. Decca Grand Opera 0 (D 430 391-2DM3 (three discs, nas: 216 minutes: ADD). Notes, text and translation included. From RCA LDS6706 (9/62).

This performance, made during the period when Decca's Ring was in progress, has in consequence tended to be overlooked. Leinsdorf was an experienced Wagnerian, having taken over the Wagner repertory from Bodanzky at the Metropolitan Opera in the 1930s, restoring all the cuts made by his predecessor. He paces the work firmly and stamps his authority on the LSO of the day, but finds it hard to relax or to peer into the more metaphysical side of the score as would a Furtwängler or a Goodall. His reading is more to be equated with that of Levine today, having the same visceral excitement, as in the fight at the end of Act 2 and the departure of the Valkyries in Act 3. Leinsdorf also evinces an understanding of the larger paragraph; what I find missing is that extra, hard-to-describe inward quality which should inform Wotan's Narration and his relationship with his erring daughter; it is something instinctive that cannot be learnt. George London's Wotan doesn't help. For all the security and resplendence of his singing, so like that of James Morris today, it wants the verbal understanding and subtlety of phrase brought to the role by Hotter and Bailey. Indeed, even Nilsson—in the Todesverkiindigung and elsewhere—doesn't approach the insights and understanding she showed for Solti (Decca), and BOhm (Philips) some five or six years later. That said, her performance leaves many others standing in its strength of voice and intelligence of delivery. The Valkyries comprise many excellent British singers of the day.

Act 1 offers many rewards in the fervent, heroically sung Siegmund of Vickers, heard to greater advantage here than for Karajan in his complete Ring on DG, and in the imaginative, deeply felt Sieglinde of Brouwenstijn, who manages the storytelling of "Der Manner Sippe" as well as any Sieglinde on disc. It was also a pleasure to hear again the sonorous bass of David Ward, even if Hunding needs a more granite-like tone than he can provide (he was soon to become an appreciable Wotan). In Act 2, Rita Gorr is a powerful but unsubtle Fricka—and perhaps those epithets characterize the performance as a whole. The recording is over-resonant and not very atmospheric. A.B.

Some good points in that review, but you can smell the British bias a mile away. The reviewer employs the often-used tactic of throwing a few truths in there hoping that people will take everything he writes as gospel. For example this:

He paces the work firmly and stamps his authority on the LSO of the day, but finds it hard to relax or to peer into the more metaphysical side of the score as would a Furtwängler or a Goodall.

Furtwangler yes, Goodall hell no, unless by metaphysical you take it to mean 30% longer than everyone else, tolerant of bad orchestral playing, and the same stodgy tempo throughout.

Or this:

For all the security and resplendence of his singing, so like that of James Morris today, it wants the verbal understanding and subtlety of phrase brought to the role by Hotter and Bailey.

Again, Hotter yes, Baily not even close.

I think the Leinsdorf is an okay recording. Personally if you want Vickers/Brouwenstijn I would go with Karajan. It is completely false that somehow Vickers and Brouwenstijn's performance is somehow superior in the Leinsdorf set. Vickers sings this role better than anyone else and on either set he is on top form. Brouwenstijn is not my favorite Sieglinde (for that you go with a young Regine Resnick on the Krauss set) but she is pretty decent on either set as well. I go with Karajan for the discipline and polish of the orchestral playing.


marvinbrown

Quote from: Wilhelm Richard on May 22, 2009, 05:45:15 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY HERR WAGNER!


  HAPPY BIRTHDAY HERR WAGNER INDEED! Oh yes, Herr Wagner  0:) born May 22, 1813 would over the course of his very turbulent, tumultous and highly controversial life not only put Germany on the opera map but have it dominate over every other nation!!  What I love most about this great man is that he risked everything for his artwork, he made no compromises of any kind whatsoever to anyone!  He taught me that life is for those who DARE! It is not for those who play it safe!

  marvin

Tsaraslondon

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 22, 2009, 06:15:56 AM
Vickers sings this role better than anyone else and on either set he is on top form. Brouwenstijn is not my favorite Sieglinde (for that you go with a young Regine Resnick on the Krauss set) but she is pretty decent on either set as well. I go with Karajan for the discipline and polish of the orchestral playing.



Brouwenstijn isn't the Sieglinde on the Karajan set. It's Janowitz - and mighty fine she is too.

And enough of this British bias rubbish. Gramophone is a British publication so there is bound to be a bias in that direction. American magazines tend to have a bias towards American singers and conductors. French magazines have a different bias altogether - you'd think nobody does early and baroque better than the French. And so on and so forth. It's a fact of life. Accept it.





\"A beautiful voice is not enough.\" Maria Callas

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 22, 2009, 06:22:17 AM


HAPPY BIRTHDAY HERR WAGNER INDEED! Oh yes, Herr Wagner  0:) born May 22, 1813 would over the course of his very turbulent, tumultous and highly controversial life not only put Germany on the opera map but have it dominate over every other nation!!  What I love most about this great man is that he risked everything for his artwork, he made no compromises of any kind whatsoever to anyone!  He taught me that life is for those who DARE! It is not for those who play it safe!

THIRDED!

Wagner has been my great example, too. Persevere, and you will be rewarded.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 22, 2009, 07:09:55 AM
Brouwenstijn isn't the Sieglinde on the Karajan set. It's Janowitz - and mighty fine she is too.

Oh yeah, sorry. Absolutely, Janowitz is a wonderful Sieglinde.

I was listening to the Keilberth this morning so Brouwenstijn as Sieglinde sort of got stuck in my mind.

knight66

I don't think I was trying to put one performance up against the other. The main issue was settling a question with Andre about the date of the recording. But if it comes to it, I think Karajan mauls the vital Wintersturme moment with Vickers and the relatively penny plain Leinsdorf scores there. I never have been able to enjoy Crespin, Big Birgit is much to be preferred. So although there is a lot I like about the Karajan, Janowitz included, I will not be throwing the Leinsdorf out.

BTW, I have no great fondness for Leinsdorf, though do enjoy his Butterfly with Leontine Price; but I was in a Mahler 8th when he was conducting; out of his depth, it was often at near break-down, but by then he was 14 years older.

Ditto the British bias.....at whose expense? I read US critics who rave about Morris and his singing of Wotan; if there is a duller exponent, point him out to me.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

greg

I have a random question, and I might have asked it before. Has all of Wagner's music been recorded? I notice that he's written A LOT besides his operas, and I've heard about almost none of it.

Wendell_E

QuoteHas all of Wagner's music been recorded? I notice that he's written A LOT besides his operas, and I've heard about almost none of it.

The record companies may be trying to protect his reputation.

I celebrated yesterday with Futwängler's EMI recording of Tristan und Isolde.  Wonderful recording, except for the awful British orchestra, chorus, and producer.  I'm just kidding about the British, of course.  ;D
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

Coopmv

This is an excellent Parsifal.  I bought this set about 2 years ago ...


Coopmv

Quote from: Wendell_E on May 23, 2009, 03:07:06 AM
The record companies may be trying to protect his reputation.

I celebrated yesterday with Futwängler's EMI recording of Tristan und Isolde.  Wonderful recording, except for the awful British orchestra, chorus, and producer.  I'm just kidding about the British, of course.  ;D

Sir Colin directed an excellent performance of this Tannhauser at Bayreuth in the mid 70's with Gwyneth Jones, etc.  I have this DVD.


Coopmv

Here are the sets from one of the three Ring Cycles (1 cycle on CD and 2 cycles on LP) I have, all by Karajan ...



Coopmv

Two more to go ...

greg

Quote from: Wendell_E on May 23, 2009, 03:07:06 AM
The record companies may be trying to protect his reputation.
Well, that's a really interesting answer.

marvinbrown

#854
Quote from: Bahamut on May 22, 2009, 06:11:48 PM
I have a random question, and I might have asked it before. Has all of Wagner's music been recorded? I notice that he's written A LOT besides his operas, and I've heard about almost none of it.

Wagner struggled (and to a certain extent failed) to make ends meet by writing piano transcriptions for what IMHO are "second rate" operas, those of Jacques Halevy for example.  He hated this work, he considered it slave work but necessary to earn much needed money. I see no reason to record these compositions nor to have them in my collection. These piano transcriptions are not representative of Wagner's genius. I do not have any interest in hearing them, much less the operas that they came from.  


 marvin

greg

Quote from: marvinbrown on May 26, 2009, 02:15:47 PM
Wagner struggled (and to a certain extent failed) to make ends meet by writing piano transcriptions for what IMHO are "second rate" operas, those of Jacques Halevy for example.  He hated this work, he considered it slave work but necessary to earn much needed money. I see no reason to record these compositions nor to have them in my collection. These piano transcriptions are not representative of Wagner's genius nor do I have any interest in hearing them, much less the operas that they came from.   


  marvin
Ah, well, that's enlightening!  :)

Valentino

Is this the Wagner trhead? May I enter? ;D
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Coopmv

Quote from: Valentino on May 30, 2009, 02:50:22 AM
Is this the Wagner trhead? May I enter? ;D

Yes, but I have not really noticed any serious discussion of his operas yet ...

Valentino

I can see (touching is not allowed) Flagstad's Brünnhilde costume from the Met almost everyday if I want to. When I look at it I giggle...
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Coopmv

Quote from: Valentino on May 30, 2009, 04:23:30 AM
I can see (touching is not allowed) Flagstad's Brünnhilde costume from the Met almost everyday if I want to. When I look at it I giggle...

Yeah, Kirsten Flagstad, the great Norwegian opera soprano.  Unfortunately, all her recordings are probably monaural ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsten_Flagstad

check it out