Wagner's Valhalla

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Are Tchai and Wag then the two poles of the same impulse?

Tchaikovsky was anti-wagnerian and called his operas boring and tiresome. I agree that they both have somewhat similar passionate music, but many critics critizise Tchaikovsky from lack of structure in his compositions, and while Wagner's music dramas are sometimes also critizised about lack of shape, nowadays it is widely known that thematic structure in Wagner's dramas is very strong and the complexity of it's structure is the very reason why critics thought it had no solid structure.

Indeed, sometimes development with musical ideas in Tchaikovsky's compositions is more like same melody in another key and with different instruments or some themes appear only once and don't really have purpose when considering entirety of the composition. Such as beginning of the first movement in violin concerto (although I actually think that it is cleverly transformed foreshadowing of the main theme). But... it doesn't matter since Tchaikovsky's melodies are so mothaf**king awesome that you hardly even think about it!

[snyprrr]

I did find a Philip Jones does Wagner. Do you think a brass Wagner cd is acceptable,...? I know, I know...Anyhow, I don't really want to hear Pictures at an Exhibition for brass, but Wagner? Maybe? Is this a good idea for a first Wagner cd? I like PJBE.

[kaergaard]

 Das Rheingold in Milano.  

No, no, no, that'll never do. This Rheingold should either be performed as a ballet or an opera, not both simultaniously. I know it has been a habit lately to have dancers sharing the stage with the singers for a few minutes, it works rarely. This one has a rather large number of athletic, scantily clad dancers doing their thing from beginning to end, pulling attention away from the singers, and occasionaly getting stumbled over by them.

René Pape as Wotan, dressed in a contemporary suit, seems to me to have wandered in from the street, standing around most of the time, leaning on his spear, wondering: "What in hell am I here for?"

Enough said!

[Sergeant Rock]

I did find a Philip Jones does Wagner. Do you think a brass Wagner cd is acceptable,...? I know, I know...Anyhow, I don't really want to hear Pictures at an Exhibition for brass, but Wagner? Maybe? Is this a good idea for a first Wagner cd? I like PJBE.

You're putting us on, right? Very funny.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

You're putting us on, right? Very funny.

Sarge

No, he isn't. I know the cover...

[Sergeant Rock]

Fair enough, but do they go on for 45 minutes in Shakespeare?

What "soliloquy" goes on for 45 minutes in any of Wagner's operas?!? You're being silly, Scarpia. If any single bit of Wagner seems like 45 minutes to you, I suggest you just not listen. Try Vivaldi or Telemann instead. Their movements never last more than 3 minutes. Perfect for the ADD inflicted 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

No, he isn't. I know the cover...

Yes, I know the disc exists. My response was to his question, "Is this a good idea for a first Wagner cd?" I can't believe he's serious. I think he's putting us on. It's as nonsensical as if he'd asked in the Haydn thread: "Is the kazooo version of op.76 a good idea for a first Haydn quartet CD?"

Sarge

[mc ukrneal]

Yes, I know the disc exists. My response was to his question, "Is this a good idea for a first Wagner cd?" I can't believe he's serious. I think he's putting us on. It's as nonsensical as if he'd asked in the Haydn thread: "Is the kazooo version of op.76 a good idea for a first Haydn quartet CD?"

Sarge

You mean you've never heard it?!?! It's a classic! 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes, I know the disc exists. My response was to his question, "Is this a good idea for a first Wagner cd?" I can't believe he's serious. I think he's putting us on. It's as nonsensical as if he'd asked in the Haydn thread: "Is the kazooo version of op.76 a good idea for a first Haydn quartet CD?"

Sarge

Haha! But as snyprrr likes brass bands and he wants Wagner without any singing... 

[bigshot]

What "soliloquy" goes on for 45 minutes in any of Wagner's operas?!?

The second act of Walkure can seem mighty long, as can the Mime banter in the beginning of Siegfried. It's not as bad if you understand the words or have subtitles. But in the opera house it can seem like a 45 minute string of soliloquies

[Gurn Blanston]

...It's as nonsensical as if he'd asked in the Haydn thread: "Is the kazooo version of op.76 a good idea for a first Haydn quartet CD?"

Sarge

Pretty sure he did... I suggested that he try Wagner for Brass instead. 0:)




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Now playing:
Academy of Ancient Music / Schröder  Hogwood - K 248b 250alt  Symphony in D 5th mvmt - Adagio - Allegro assai

[Scarpia]

Das Rheingold in Milano.  

No, no, no, that'll never do. This Rheingold should either be performed as a ballet or an opera, not both simultaniously. I know it has been a habit lately to have dancers sharing the stage with the singers for a few minutes, it works rarely. This one has a rather large number of athletic, scantily clad dancers doing their thing from beginning to end, pulling attention away from the singers, and occasionaly getting stumbled over by them.

René Pape as Wotan, dressed in a contemporary suit, seems to me to have wandered in from the street, standing around most of the time, leaning on his spear, wondering: "What in hell am I here for?"

Enough said!

How did you manage to see this production?

[greg]

thematic structure in Wagner's dramas is very strong and the complexity of it's structure is the very reason why critics thought it had no solid structure.

I think it's similar with some of Mahler's stuff. It's just that it's very hard to naturally hear the structure when it's so complex. If you study a single movement closely, though, the logic is unveiled.

[kaergaard]

How did you manage to see this production?

Courtesy of European Television Networks, who offer their subscribers the choices of opera, concert, broadcasts, etc. every evening!

Further courtesy of European friends recording the broadcasts and sharing this cultural wealth with their friends living in cultural wastelands! 

I wouldn't list this Milano production as 'cultural wealth', but hey, there is still Wagner's music and Pape sings beautifully, even with half naked males and females hanging all over his body, physically hanging! 

[Scarpia]

Courtesy of European Television Networks, who offer their subscribers the choices of opera, concert, broadcasts, etc. every evening!

Further courtesy of European friends recording the broadcasts and sharing this cultural wealth with their friends living in cultural wastelands! 

I wouldn't list this Milano production as 'cultural wealth', but hey, there is still Wagner's music and Pape sings beautifully, even with half naked males and females hanging all over his body, physically hanging! 

This is the production that they did as one of those simulcasts to movie theaters?  I wanted to see it but they schedule the one broadcast on a Tuesday afternoon, 2pm Eastern time.  Marketing genius's, these Italians, after studying American culture by watching 'Dallas' they determined that Americans don't have to go to work.   

[marvinbrown]

Haha! But as snyprrr likes brass bands and he wants Wagner without any singing...

  WHAT??!! Now that is sacrilegious!  Wagner without any singing  and worst yet,  played by a brass band  what is this world coming to??

  marvin

[kaergaard]

This is the production that they did as one of those simulcasts to movie theaters?

Sorry, can't help you there because I am not familiar with the Scala's broadcast; I don't even know if they simulcast to movie theaters. But opera and concert performances are usually shown to home viewers by television networks.

[bigshot]

How about Stan Kenton's big band Wagner?

[DavidRoss]

How about Stan Kenton's big band Wagner?

I detect a sense of humor.  Are you sure you're a Wagnerite?

[bigshot]

Kill da wabbit?