Wagner's Valhalla

Started by Greta, April 07, 2007, 08:09:57 PM

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bhodges

Oh thanks (for both suggestions).  Appreciate the info on that Barenboim set (which might entice me to get it). 

--Bruce

PSmith08

Quote from: bhodges on July 26, 2007, 11:56:42 AM
Oh thanks (for both suggestions).  Appreciate the info on that Barenboim set (which might entice me to get it). 

--Bruce

Sure thing.

I had some of the original releases of the Barenboim Ring, and when I learned that the reissue set would have the original libretti, I was most pleased. Often, the reissues just have track listings and a couple essays. It might be a "bargain" set, but it is anything but shoddy in packaging and accompanying materials. The interpretations, too, if you like Barenboim, are splendid.

bhodges

Quote from: PSmith08 on July 26, 2007, 12:02:24 PM
I had some of the original releases of the Barenboim Ring, and when I learned that the reissue set would have the original libretti, I was most pleased. Often, the reissues just have track listings and a couple essays. It might be a "bargain" set, but it is anything but shoddy in packaging and accompanying materials. The interpretations, too, if you like Barenboim, are splendid.

Yes, I agree: I hate it when reissues cut corners like that, and especially with libretti (and extensive notes in general).  I mean, it's not as if consumers down the line would be a) less interested in these, or b) necessarily have them in their libraries already. 

I've only heard Barenboim once in Wagner, in an excerpt with Chicago a few years ago (and can't recall what it was at the moment).  I recall liking it, though.

--Bruce

karlhenning

Was it Barenboim who defied the unwritten law, and performed Wagner in Israel?

PSmith08

Quote from: karlhenning on July 26, 2007, 12:13:20 PM
Was it Barenboim who defied the unwritten law, and performed Wagner in Israel?

Yes, as an encore. He made some effort to make it palatable to the audience and the nation, but still caught a lot of flak for it. I understand his point, but there are some doors better left closed.

Quote from: bhodges on July 26, 2007, 12:08:28 PM
Yes, I agree: I hate it when reissues cut corners like that, and especially with libretti (and extensive notes in general).  I mean, it's not as if consumers down the line would be a) less interested in these, or b) necessarily have them in their libraries already. 

I've only heard Barenboim once in Wagner, in an excerpt with Chicago a few years ago (and can't recall what it was at the moment).  I recall liking it, though.

--Bruce

The big companies do tend to skimp on the peripherals, for the most part, but the "boutique" labels really do offer a lot of bang for the buck. One, of course, is Testament.

Solitary Wanderer

Quote from: Manuel on July 26, 2007, 09:17:09 AM
Yes. That one.

What I could get from the Amazon samples is that this set is not about loosen excerpts, but motifs are exposed and explained (as in the BBC Discovering music files).


Yes, it is an introduction to the motifs with a fascinating spoken dialogue by the very informed Deryck Cook. I listened to some more of it last night and found it very helpful :)
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

Solitary Wanderer

#106
Listened/viewed these two last night.



Die Walkure Act.1.

&



Die Walkure Act.1.

'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

marvinbrown

#107
Quote from: Wendell_E on July 26, 2007, 10:59:01 AM

I don't have it.  My first Ring recording was Furtwängler's RAI cycle on LPs,

  Hello Wendell_E, Furtwangler's RAI Cycle was my first Ring as well. But I bought mine on cd, although mine did NOT come with a single cd intro identifying the leitmotifs (hmm...I wonder why they removed it??).  Its an old recording and sound suffers especially the brass section- but I find Furwangler the ideal conductor for Wagner.  Considering what he had to work with, the Orchestra Sinfonica and Chorus of Radio Italia and not exactly a stellar cast either, I'd say he did a damn good job.  Some people argue (present company included) that his pace, tempo and overall understanding of the Ring is "better" or "more suitable" than Solti, Karajan and the rest.  But sound in comparison to Solti et. al do not make the RAI cycle the ideal choice for a beginner- Solti remains my favorite overall.  (Allow me to add a side point here:  I highly recommend the Furtwangler Recording of Tristan und Isolde with Kristen Flagstad on EMI Great Recordings  of the Century (Remastered)- a marvellous recording and arguably the ideal recording!!!)

  marvin

grandma

Quote from: Wendell_E on July 26, 2007, 10:59:01 AM
The Ring Disc: An Interactive Guide to Wagners Ring Cycle

Amazon.com lists one new copy available for $75.00 from one of their sellers:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000001A3A/ref=dp_olp_2/102-5423591-3069720

I don't have it.  My first Ring recording was Furtwängler's RAI cycle on LPs, which came with a single-LP intro to the cycle identifying the motifs and playing excerpts from the recording.  I probably listened to it once, but mostly used Ernest Newman's book on the Wagner operas, which (for the post-Rienzi operas), is a great intro to the works, with info on the sources and compostion each work, followed by a synopsis with musical examples of the leitmotifs:

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Operas-Ernest-Newman/dp/0691027161/ref=sr_1_1/102-5423591-3069720?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185476047&sr=1-1

Thanks, Wendell

That was the disc I was trying to remember.

Solitary Wanderer

Quote from: grandma on July 26, 2007, 03:39:04 PM
Thanks, Wendell

That was the disc I was trying to remember.

I've had that disc on my Wish List for some time. Maybe I should... ;)
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

grandma

Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on July 26, 2007, 03:40:38 PM
I've had that disc on my Wish List for some time. Maybe I should... ;)

If you cannot read music or play it, I would definitely get it.  Sheet music does me no good because I cannot read it; I must hear it.

grandma

#111
I agree that Solti is the best recording for beginners.  Later they can choose other versions.

I think the recommended Keilberth Ring is the 1955 version.

I agree with Marvin that the Furtwangler Tristan und Isolde is my favorite version.

PSmith08

Quote from: grandma on July 26, 2007, 04:15:29 PM
I agree that Solti is the best recording for beginners.  Later they can choose other versions.

I think the recommended Keilberth Ring is the 1955 version.

I agree with Marvin that the Furtwangler Tristan und Isolde is my favorite version.

Really, Keilberth's entire Decca stereo output from the 1955 Festspiele (Der Ring des Nibelungen and Der fliegende Holländer) is worth the effort and expense required to acquire it.

Steve

I've just recently acquired the Böhm recordings of Der Ring des Nibelungen, and am enjoying them handsomely. They make for an interesting contrast with the more formulaic Solti disks.  :)

m_gigena

Quote from: grandma on July 26, 2007, 04:15:29 PM

I think the recommended Keilberth Ring is the 1955 version.

Do you think it is better than his 1952 and 1953 sets?

Solitary Wanderer

This is the only set I have so far.



The price was incredibly good.

The performers all sound up to it so far [I'm only up to disc.5.].

I believe it was the first digital recording of the Ring.
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

m_gigena

Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on July 26, 2007, 07:18:56 PM
This is the only set I have so far.



The price was incredibly good.

The performers all sound up to it so far [I'm only up to disc.5.].

I believe it was the first digital recording of the Ring.

Join OperaShare, you can download dozens of Rings there (including the Keilberths I mentioned, some live Solti... a lot, really)

grandma

Quote from: Manuel on July 26, 2007, 07:16:27 PM
Do you think it is better than his 1952 and 1953 sets?

I have not heard his 1952 and 1953 sets but do have the 1955 and enjoy it.  I bought the 1955 because it was so highly praised.

PSmith08

Quote from: Manuel on July 26, 2007, 07:16:27 PM
Do you think it is better than his 1952 and 1953 sets?

Without doubt. The sound on the 1955 set is such that it alone recommends the set. That, though, is too glib of a dismissal.

The 1952 set suffers from uneven casting in a big way, such as Bernd Aldenhoff and Max Lorenz as Siegfried. Lorenz was a goner in 1950 for Furtwängler. You do get Hermann Uhde as Wotan in the '52 Rheingold, so that is a benefit - though Hotter is more (infelicitous as it is) godlike. In 1953, Regina Resnik is not Gré Brouwenstijn, though she's competent-enough. Mödl is a fine Brünnhilde, though I marginally prefer Varnay. I'm sorry to keep carping on this, but Wagner needs good sound to work - otherwise it's just too much of a stretch. While the 1952/3 sets have decent mono, especially in the better transfers, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that the Decca stereo isn't darned good for 1955, and would be pretty good for some time after that.

Still, it does come down to preference. If there's a casting choice in the earlier sets that does it for you, then go for it. Uhde as the 1952 Rheingold Wotan would be pretty close to a deal-maker for me.

Solitary Wanderer



Watched Die Walkure Act.2. last night.

I'm enjoying each act more and more as I go along.

I think Sarge said that he considered Scene.1. from Act.2. to represent the 'heart' of the entire cycle.

I also like Marvins description of the Ring as 'a psychological thriller with a symphonic soundtrack'.

Its epic stuff indeed.
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte