Wagner's Valhalla

Started by Greta, April 07, 2007, 08:09:57 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

david johnson

wagner has never been a favorite of mine, but i've always enjoyed the music.  i just tend to listen to other stuff first.
love the 'dutchman' w/franz konwitschny/berlin staatskapelle!

dj

J.Z. Herrenberg

I just want to greet my fellow Wagnerians.

My favourites: all of the mature dramas (Ring, Tristan, Meistersinger, Parsifal). But the first three 'romantic operas' are not to be sneezed at.

Absolute high points for me are: Third Act of 'Die Walküre', Second Act of 'Tristan' , and the Third Act of 'Parsifal'.

Wotan's scene with Brünnhilde is the single most moving thing Wagner ever wrote, I think; the love music from 'Tristan' is the most bewitching and ecstatic; and the final act from Parsifal - in its sense of fulfilment, tranquility, reaching of wholeness - ranks among the greatest achievements of the human mind, on a par with, for instance, Shakespeare (and I'm thinking especially of the close of 'A Winter's Tale', which has the same mystery, elevation, solemnity and mysticism).

As far as recordings go - I always liked Solti's Ring, but Karajan is, to me, unbeaten in 'Das Rheingold'; the Böhm and Furtwängler 'Tristan' are superb; Karajan is very good in 'Meistersinger'; as far as 'Parsifal' is concerned, I don't have a clear favourite, yet.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

uffeviking

Am I being repetitive by advocating listening to, or watching, performances of Wagner conducted by very much alive and active maestros?

A quick survey of my DVD collection lists:

Franz Melser-Möst Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg
Armin Jordan Tristan und Isolde
Kent Nagano Parsifal
Claudio Abbado Lohengrin
Hartmut Haenchen Der Ring des Nibelungen
Kent Pappano Der Ring des Nibellungen

The old and long dead conductors deserve their glory and laurels, now how about giving your time and attention to new and very exciting, talentend musicians!  ;)

Wendell_E

Quote from: uffeviking on July 28, 2007, 05:49:00 AM
The old and long dead conductors deserve their glory and laurels, now how about giving your time and attention to new and very exciting, talentend musicians!  ;)

Well, as I type this I'm listening to the live broadcast from Bayreuth of Die Walküre, conducted by Thielemann. 

Quote from: uffeviking on July 28, 2007, 05:49:00 AM

Kent Pappano Der Ring des Nibellungen
???  ;D

I do have the Lohengrin and Parsifal DVDs you mention, another Parsifal (Armin Jordan conducting and acting the role of Amfortas in Syberberg's film), and the Met Ring and Tristan, conducted by Levine.  Oh, and the Bayreuth Fliegende Holländer, conducted by Woldemar Nelsson.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

m_gigena

Quote from: uffeviking on July 28, 2007, 05:49:00 AM
Kent Pappano Der Ring des Nibellungen

Is that Kent Nagano and Antonio Pappano's unknown son? (provided they could somehow manage to have descendents).  ;)

uffeviking

Quote from: Wendell_E on July 28, 2007, 06:47:29 AM
Well, as I type this I'm listening to the live broadcast from Bayreuth of Die Walküre, conducted by Thielemann. 
???  ;D


Pray tell, my friend, where is that broadcast? I tried BBC3 and of course they have The Proms. My local classical station, KING FM does not broadcast Bayreuth! Forget about the local NWPR, they insist on giving precedence to the old man on Lake Woebegone!

Wendell, please rescue me! Thank you!  :-*

Wendell_E

#126
Quote from: uffeviking on July 28, 2007, 08:02:27 AM
Pray tell, my friend, where is that broadcast? I tried BBC3 and of course they have The Proms. My local classical station, KING FM does not broadcast Bayreuth! Forget about the local NWPR, they insist on giving precedence to the old man on Lake Woebegone!

Wendell, please rescue me! Thank you!  :-*

They're playing it on several stations.  I'm listening on Bartók Radio (Hungary), but switched to Bayern 4 Klassik for the intermission, since my German's a lot better than my Hungarian.

Here's a page with a schedule of upcoming Bayreuth broadcasts and re-broadcasts, with cast lists and links for listening:

http://www.operacast.com/bayreuth07.htm.

The Fricka-Wotan scene's just beginning.

Our public radio station here in Mobile, WHIL-FM, dropped opera entirely almost a year ago.  I'm really grateful to Al Gore for inventing the Internet!   ;)
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

uffeviking

My Saviour!  :-*  :-*  :-*

I forgot all about Bartok, even though I bookmarked it long ago! But I didn't have the Bavarians. Shall remedy it!  ;D

uffeviking

#128
The new Trinity at Bayreuth: Thielemann - Watson - Dohmen.  ::)

Incredibly beautiful, spine-tingling and whatever praising words in the dictionary. The incredible power and beauty of Dohman's last words: Wer meines Speeres Spitze fürchtet, durchschreite das Feuer nie! left me almost breathless and so moved me tears started rolling down my cheeks.

There have been a number of Bayreuth Rings I have listened to, - and the last few forgettable!  :-[ but this one is a winner again. Needed one! - Wendell_E, have you recovered? Any thoughts you want to share? -

PSmith08

I tuned in to Das Rheingold yesterday, though I overslept for Die Walküre, and I thought it not bad. Thielemann did a pretty good job, though - as was pointed out to me - he took a big, unmarked rallentando for the "new idea" motif, where Wagner writes, "Wie von einem grossen Gedanken ergriffen, sehr entschlossen." Looking at the score, Wagner sets Mäßig bewegt as the tempo from the "Rainbow bridge" on down the line - i.e., to the conclusion of the music-drama. In fact, for the "new idea" bit, Wagner wrote, "sehr energisch," while - at the same time - he goes from 3/4 to C. In other words, I don't think Wagner wanted things slowed down much - if at all - for this moment. We are in Mäßig bewegt, or - more or less - Allegro moderato, and Thielemann downshifts in such a way that mucks with Wagner's clear and literal intent. In other words, Thielemann is slowing things down in a big way, where Wagner was being careful not to let things get so slow.

I'm not too wrapped around the axle about it, though, as such an unmarked rallentando is the sort of thing Hans Knappertsbusch would have done - though probably in a bit more of an intelligent way. Thielemann is making good progress.

uffeviking

PSmith08 You are aware of the rebroadcasts of all the operas, so you can catch the ones you missed because of oversleeping!  ::)

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: PSmith08 on July 26, 2007, 04:37:06 PM
Really, Keilberth's entire Decca stereo output from the 1955 Festspiele (Der Ring des Nibelungen and Der fliegende Holländer) is worth the effort and expense required to acquire it.
I had a chance to sample some of the Keiberth 1955 cycle today at Barnes and Nobles and one thing that annoys the hell out of me is how LOUD the audience was. I mean, come on, shut up already. All the hemming and sighing in addition to the coughs and sneezes. Karl Boehm's cycle is also live at Bayreuth and they had the good common sense to shut their big fat mouths for the most part. And the stereo is certainly nothing to write home about, certainly not as good as some of Reiner's mid to late 1950's RCA recordings. You get pretty much the same cast in the 1953 Krauss Ring which has been nicely remastered lately into excellent mono sound. So is it worth spending about $200 for the Keilberth right now? I think not. BUT I think if the price drops to under  $100 it would be worth a try.

Wendell_E

Quote from: uffeviking on July 28, 2007, 11:55:55 AM
The new Trinity at Bayreuth: Thielemann - Watson - Dohmen.  ::)
There have been a number of Bayreuth Rings I have listened to, - and the last few forgettable!  :-[ but this one is a winner again. Needed one! - Wendell_E, have you recovered? Any thoughts you want to share? -

I'm mostly thinking "I wish I didn't work on Saturdays so I could have devoted my full attention to it".   :D

What I was able to hear was pretty wonderful, though.  I missed Wotan's farewell, though.  I left work just as he was singing his "Keiner wie sie"s, and by the time I got home, got the computer booted up and the radio station on-line, I was just in time to hear the final applause. 

Yeah, definitely better than what I've heard from Bayreuth Rings in recent seasons.  Hope it holds up for the 2nd half.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

PSmith08

Quote from: uffeviking on July 28, 2007, 01:22:25 PM
PSmith08 You are aware of the rebroadcasts of all the operas, so you can catch the ones you missed because of oversleeping!  ::)

I am aware of the rebroadcast schedule, but I'm also looking more forward to Adam Fischer's Parsifal than a Thielemann Ring.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on July 28, 2007, 02:15:33 PM
I had a chance to sample some of the Keiberth 1955 cycle today at Barnes and Nobles and one thing that annoys the hell out of me is how LOUD the audience was. I mean, come on, shut up already. All the hemming and sighing in addition to the coughs and sneezes. Karl Boehm's cycle is also live at Bayreuth and they had the good common sense to shut their big fat mouths for the most part. And the stereo is certainly nothing to write home about, certainly not as good as some of Reiner's mid to late 1950's RCA recordings. You get pretty much the same cast in the 1953 Krauss Ring which has been nicely remastered lately into excellent mono sound. So is it worth spending about $200 for the Keilberth right now? I think not. BUT I think if the price drops to under  $100 it would be worth a try.

That's an opinion, to be sure, but if we're talking about mono sets live from Bayreuth - forget Clemens Krauss, his 1953 Ring is a one-off set. If I recall correctly, 1953 was the only time Krauss did the Ring at Bayreuth; even then, he shared the performances with Joseph Keilberth. Hans Knappertsbusch's 1956 cycle (on M&A or, with the Festspiele imprimatur, Orfeo) is the one to get. Knappertsbusch was about as perfect a Wagner conductor as you could hope to find - after Furtwängler. In fact, until the 1955 Ring was released, I probably would have pointed to Knappertsbusch's as "the 'Golden Age' Ring."

I'm just going to disagree, and say: Keilberth has far too much going for it to pass it over, at any reasonable price, in favor of anyone but Knappertsbusch. If the latter set weren't available, then Krauss would be a contender. With Hans Knappertsbusch, though, competing - almost anything is a non-starter.

m_gigena

#134
I just got this




It's amazing! I only listened to two or three tracks so far, and yet I've fallen in love. The overture to Der fliegende Holländer is playing right now...

PSmith08

Quote from: Manuel on July 28, 2007, 06:40:38 PM
It's amazing! I only listened to two or three tracks so far, and yet I've fallen in love. The overture to Der fliegende Holländer is playing right now...

That Klemperer set is, on balance, one of the best overtures-and-preludes sets on the market. I'm generally a fan of Klemperer, but his EMI Wagner output - this and Holländer, as I recall - is just very good.

Solitary Wanderer



Die Walkure Act.3.

I'm loving this more and more with each Act :)
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: PSmith08 on July 28, 2007, 02:45:40 PM

I'm just going to disagree, and say: Keilberth has far too much going for it to pass it over, at any reasonable price, in favor of anyone but Knappertsbusch. If the latter set weren't available, then Krauss would be a contender. With Hans Knappertsbusch, though, competing - almost anything is a non-starter.

I didn't say I was going to pass it over. Archivmusic already offers the complete set for about $170. You wait a couple of years and it is almost guaranteed to drop even more in price from aftermarket sellers. If you were to buy it in installments as they come out you would pay about $70-80 for each of the last three parts and abouth$40-50 for Rheingold. It pays to be patient.

Solitary Wanderer



Last night it was Siegfried Act.1.
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

m_gigena