Thoughts on Asians, Koreans and cross legged restaurants

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I have no possible contribution to make or any relevant opinion as a person

Have you considered the possibility that they might be right?    Why did they hire you anyway?

The resulting layout of that part of the room with the cabinet instead blocking the light from a window was, as with most of the Korean environment and language, congested, out of proportion, reflective of messy but self-righteous minds and irritating to look at.

Then how do you explain the fact that they make cars, computers and TVs that work?

[Florestan]

Then how do you explain the fact that they make cars, computers and TVs that work?

Good question. As owner of a Korean car that works impeccably, I'd like to learn Sean's answer as well. 

[Sean]

Florestan, is it ia KIA (killed in action)? From my notes-

Another case of conformism are with the pedestrian lights, which rather favour the traffic and which only stay on green just long enough to walk to the other side- once you get to half way a ten second countdown starts, the expectation being that you wait respectfully for the lights to change then you can go, keeping the chances of waltzing up to the lights yourself to find them on green to a minimum.

In the evenings the lights shut down though and it's up to you, but otherwise there's no jaywalking, something they have wondrous disapproval of: it really clashing with the culture, drawing a chorus of tuts that say 'your whole outlook on life is terribly wrong!! What do you mean you're not an automaton?! You'll never get anywhere in life!': the driving is so edgy and darting though they've got a point, but traffic will also regularly drive over the crossing when the green man has come light on, sometimes very fast- really really dangerous if you're not checking.

You can see the language's pompous upward tones and Confucianist principle before common sense in the standing to attention at roadsides, waiting for the green man light no matter what, while the domineering traffic breaks the rules and drives over the crossing with the green man showing.

Koreans can't drive to Western standards and simply do not have the basic understand of many of the skills and principles, for instance taking the car out of gear at high speed and on bends, not knowing where to hold the wheel and dangerously using one hand, driving too fast and not reading the road at all: the mindless rushing up to hazards and red lights when they're as clear as day and then breaking sharply reflects the culture's angry edge; appropriately a common make of car is KIA Motors.

All this is carried on with an alternating mixture of high confidence and uncertainty. Here has one of the worst accident rates in the developed world, and pedestrians have low priority for vehicle drivers, who think that roads are just for them and have no concept of a road user legally entitled to step onto and cross a road: this is particularly dangerous on the many small roads with no footpaths. The drivers' marvelous rationalization of their often dangerous driving is to use their horn at the pedestrians to get the hell out of the way and then barge past them- rather than seeing the danger and slowing down.

[Florestan]

Florestan, is it ia KIA (killed in action)?

No, it's not. It's a Hyundai Accent and since I've bought it in 2004 I had zero problems with it.

OTOH, if South Korea is such an awful country and the Koreans are such lousy bastards, why on Earth do you stay there? And, much worse, why do you want to seduce a married Korean woman? Are you not afraid that her husband, unenlightened, backward fellow as he is, might catch notice of your intention and kill you in one of those sudden outbursts of irrational anger that are a national mark of Koreans?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Are you not afraid that her husband, unenlightened, backward fellow as he is, might catch notice of your intention and kill you in one of those sudden outbursts of irrational anger that are a national mark of Koreans?

He's probably got a black belt in tae kwon do too...maybe Koreans are just angry because Sean is there?

BTW Sean, why did you evade my question on the quality of Korean-made products?

[Sean]

Florestan

OTOH, if South Korea is such an awful country and the Koreans are such lousy bastards, why on Earth do you stay there?

Leaving on Tuesday, thank the Gods.

And, much worse, why do you want to seduce a married Korean woman?

It'd be good for her; actually though her flirting is as far as it goes- she's the it girl of the whole (boys) college. Do you think I should just push her on the couch in the office here? I think I should.

Are you not afraid that her husband, unenlightened, backward fellow as he is, might catch notice of your intention and kill you in one of those sudden outbursts of irrational anger that are a national mark of Koreans?

Such fellows tend not to mind that much.

[Sean]

He's probably got a black belt in tae kwon do too...maybe Koreans are just angry because Sean is there?

BTW Sean, why did you evade my question on the quality of Korean-made products?

Well, they don't give me that much chance to make them mad, but I guess even without the language they can get pretty miffed.

As for Korean's produce, this place is a little US overseas possession, and a well overvalued one at that- my wage has lost 30+% since I began a year ago, and I've just cashed my account for euros.

[Florestan]

Do you think I should just push her on the couch in the office here? I think I should.

Oh, I think you should, too. Why depriving yourself of the pleasant experience of a Korean prison?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

As for Korean's produce, this place is a little US overseas possession, and a well overvalued one at that

Sadly, whatever point you were trying to make here has gone over my head. Are you implying that, since Korea is a "little overseas US possession," they don't really make those high-quality products?

[Lethevich]

Koreans can't drive to Western standards and simply do not have the basic understand of many of the skills and principles, for instance taking the car out of gear at high speed and on bends, not knowing where to hold the wheel and dangerously using one hand, driving too fast and not reading the road at all: the mindless rushing up to hazards and red lights when they're as clear as day and then breaking sharply

Isn't that the case everywhere? Western driving safety standards seem to be just that - western. Japan being a notable exception.

[greg]

dangerously using one hand,

Now, if it's all the time, i can understand, but there's nothing wrong if you're okay to do it...

[sul G]

I know Sean's gone, but I thought I'd share this line from Alain Danielou. Danielou ought to be Sean's sort of person - a highly cultivated musician with extreme views, he relocated to India and became a Hindu before returning to the west. He was the author of Shiva and Dionysus, for heaven's sake - can anything more Seanian be imagined? Here's what he has to say on the subject at hand, speaking re Japan:

The art of travelling consists in abandoning one's habits as well as any feeling of nationalism or superiority. One must carefully observe customs and manners. It is not enough to put on an act, bowing pretentiously in the Japanese or Indian style, ill-humouredly removing one's shoes, or sitting on the floor with obvious discomfort. These things have to be felt so that they immediately become second nature.

[Florestan]

Excellent.

[drogulus]

    Do you have to really feel the obvious discomfort or is it good enough if you can convince others? I'm not sure I could manage the distinction between real and imagined sincerity.

[sul G]

  I think something is lost in translation there!

[Renfield]

I have just read through this thread, because I can't sleep.

It almost succeeded in its intended purpose; but I still can't sleep, alas.


(Point is, cultural relativism; value theory; political philosophy (see: social justice). Philosophy forum that way.  ----->)


However, that having been said, I do appreciate Sean's candidness, as ever.

[Henritus]

Cultures evolve and adapt. This also means natural selection against any culture that lags behind. I'm from South Korea (lived there for the first 25 years of my life), and I understand everything Sean said here. Koreans in general seem impatient, loud, rude, easily angered, never afraid of confrontation and also not very tolerable to diversity, and yeah Korean food smells a lot (but delicious). But Koreans also open up their minds relatively easily (if approached right), can be very sincere, and can be extremely loyal. I believe over time, many of those so called 'third-world traits' that Sean abhorred will eventually disappear. I'm also heartbroken that Sean wasn't surrounded by better people at work. Koreans or not those co-workers sound like inconsiderate backward a**holes. My wife had almost same experience as Sean while she a trainee there. Now living in the States, she declares she is never going back to Korea. Every once in a while, I try to convince her she has a very narrow opinion on the whole Nation based on her narrow experience.

[greg]

I just reread this part and tried it myself to see what he really meant:

Koreans have particularly short and almost dislocated floppy thigh bones and all of them as far as I can see can sit happily in the lotus position with ankles over the opposite knees-

How do you do that? 
I nearly broke my legs.

[sul G]

Evidently because you aren't Korean.

[greg]

Evidently because you aren't Korean.

I guess so. Tried it again... got one ankle over one knee, that's it. Extremely uncomfortable. They must have Jello legs.