"Some Have The Impression That Tchaikovsky Composed Only 3 Symphonies..."

[Cato]

I was given a few years ago the NAXOS complete Tchaikovsky Symphonies, which has Antoni Wit conducting the Third Symphony and Adrian Leaper in the first two.  The orchestra is the Polish Radio and Television Symphony.

I am amazed that this is now out-of-print, with a used copy selling for c. $90.00! 

The set contains the 3 Piano Concerti and several tone-poems (Hamlet, Francesca da Rimini, etc).

The versions of the first 3 symphonies presented in the set are quite fine: not on the same level as e.g. Tilson-Thomas on DGG, but it is NAXOS at a budget price.

[Que]

let us not forget ormandy/philly doing #7.
better also count in 'manfred' symphony.

dj

Indeed: the Manfred, the Manfred, the Manfred, people!!

I'm perplexed that it takes thirteen posts before it's even mentioned....
I personally rank it right together with the Pathétique as Tchaikovsky's best symphonies.

See link for recommendations.

Q

[greg]

But the emotional content takes you on some marvelous journeys: #1 "Winter Dreams" is my favorite example of this point, and to my ear is the most cogent of the 3

First of all, I like them all, but I might have to say that the first might possibly be my favorite, if I had to choose at the moment. I have no idea why it isn't better known.

[Cato]

First of all, I like them all, but I might have to say that the First might possibly be my favorite, if I had to choose at the moment. I have no idea why it isn't better known.

It seems to have taken recordings from the stereo era to reveal their existence to the general public: hence the opening quote I used to begin the topic! 

The same could be said for the early Dvorak symphonies, some of which are weaker, however, than even the Tchaikovsky Third.

Que: You are quite right.  I consider the Manfred Symphony the most successful and satisfying of the symphonies!   

[Cato]

A distant memory has returned: was not Igor Stravinsky instrumental in resurrecting the Third Symphony of Tchaikovsky?

I can find nothing now on the Internet about this, but I recall that he conducted the work perhaps in the 1950's or earlier: my memory comes from reading a remark decades ago that the work is mistitled ("Polish"), and the puckish claim was that an echt Romanoff Russian like Stravinsky would not have aided anything truly Polish!   

[Herman]

Balanchine used the Third Symphony for his Diamonds ballet, but I doubt he needed Stravinsky for this.

[Drasko]

A distant memory has returned: was not Igor Stravinsky instrumental in resurrecting the Third Symphony of Tchaikovsky?

I can find nothing now on the Internet about this, but I recall that he conducted the work perhaps in the 1950's or earlier: my memory comes from reading a remark decades ago that the work is mistitled ("Polish"), and the puckish claim was that an echt Romanoff Russian like Stravinsky would not have aided anything truly Polish!   

My distant memory is somewhat different. Seem to recall reading that one of the very few non-Stravinsky pieces Stravinsky the Conductor had in his repertoire was not Tchaikovsky third but second symphony "Little Russian". Basically he'd either conduct all Stravinsky concert or Glinka's Ruslan and Ludmila overture, his own piece and Tchaikovsky 2nd. No third option. Haven't a slightest idea where I read this, or is it true, but there is a recording (at least one) of him conducting "Little Russian".

http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC101.php
there is lengthy sample

[Cato]

After some digging I have found the reference from Google Books:

Igor Stravinsky: His Personality, Works, and Views by Mikhail Druskin.

http://books.google.com/books?id=nvI8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=stravinsky+criticism+tchaikovsky+third+symphony&source=bl&ots=ROBcUGpXw7&sig=B3NTf6SAEDhVZGxrrkV_zuKD6ss&hl=en&ei=33-wSaHgDonKtQPAvdHVAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

On page 32 Druskin writes that Stravinsky "often conducted performances of Tchaikovsky's Second and Third Symphonies and the Serenade for Strings."

[Maciek]

I've always found it perplexing (though it isn't all that unprecedented) that Igor Stravinsky, while a descendant of an old Polish noble family (whose recorded history dates back to the 17th century), held such strong anti-Polish sentiments (his sarcastic remarks during his stay in Warsaw in 1965 clash more than a bit with the image of a "polite, courteous and helpful" Stravinsky that can be found in various sources; such as the Wikipedia ). The real irony is in the history of the family. In 1771 Igor's great grandfather, the nobleman Stanisław Strawiński took part in a plot to kidnap and possibly kill Stanisław August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland (they did manage to kidnap him but the king talked his kidnapper out of the whole thing). The reason? The king was weak and fell under too much of a Russian influence (he was Catharine the Great's lover). So it is quite an irony that at least some of Stanisław Strawiński's descendants would be russified to such an extent. (There were generally two offshoots: the "Polish" Stravinskys and the russified or "Russian" Stravinskys living in Petersburg in the late 19th/early 20th century. They were not on speaking terms.)

Incidentally, the idea of the abduction came from none other but Kazimierz Pułaski, who had to flee once it was revealed, and ended up in America, where he earned the nickname of "the father of American cavalry".

Sorry for the off-topic aside. Couldn't help myself.

[ChamberNut]

Long live Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 2, "The Ukrainian"!  I love it.  0:)

[DavidW]

Long live Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 2, "The Ukrainian"!  I love it.  0:)

And I love the winter daydreams!  What a wonderful melody that will never leave me. 0:)

And if there ever was a diverimento that danced, it is the Polish symphony.

[George]

And I love the winter daydreams!  What a wonderful melody that will never leave me. 0:)

Seoconded. I love the MTT one on DG Originals. 

[DavidW]

Seoconded. I love the MTT one on DG Originals. 

Oh I have Bernstein/NYPO, I like his style with Tchaikovsky.

[Wanderer]

I've always found it perplexing (though it isn't all that unprecedented) that Igor Stravinsky, while a descendant of an old Polish noble family (whose recorded history dates back to the 17th century), held such strong anti-Polish sentiments (his sarcastic remarks during his stay in Warsaw in 1965 clash more than a bit with the image of a "polite, courteous and helpful" Stravinsky that can be found in various sources; such as the Wikipedia ). The real irony is in the history of the family. In 1771 Igor's great grandfather, the nobleman Stanisław Strawiński took part in a plot to kidnap and possibly kill Stanisław August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland (they did manage to kidnap him but the king talked his kidnapper out of the whole thing). The reason? The king was weak and fell under too much of a Russian influence (he was Catharine the Great's lover). So it is quite an irony that at least some of Stanisław Strawiński's descendants would be russified to such an extent. (There were generally two offshoots: the "Polish" Stravinskys and the russified or "Russian" Stravinskys living in Petersburg in the late 19th/early 20th century. They were not on speaking terms.)

Incidentally, the idea of the abduction came from none other but Kazimierz Pułaski, who had to flee once it was revealed, and ended up in America, where he earned the nickname of "the father of American cavalry".

Sorry for the off-topic aside. Couldn't help myself.

By all means, we need these kind of off-topic asides. 

To the original subject, I find the First Symphony the most imaginative and distinguished of the first three; and I just adore its first movement. My favourite rendition is Karajan with the BPO.

[Florestan]

I find the First Symphony the most imaginative and distinguished of the first three; and I just adore its first movement. My favourite rendition is Karajan with the BPO.

Seconded on both highlighted accounts. Muti and Philharmonia Orchestra do an excellent job too. As for my favourite part, there's no hesitation: second movement.

Slightly off-topic: for anyone who loves Tchaikovsky's First I strongly recommend Vassily Kalinnikov's two symphonies: magic!

Maciek, very interesting info, thanks for sharing!

[The new erato]

I've always found it perplexing (though it isn't all that unprecedented) that Igor Stravinsky, while a descendant of an old Polish noble family (whose recorded history dates back to the 17th century), held such strong anti-Polish sentiments (his sarcastic remarks during his stay in Warsaw in 1965 clash more than a bit with the image of a "polite, courteous and helpful" Stravinsky that can be found in various sources; such as the Wikipedia ). The real irony is in the history of the family. In 1771 Igor's great grandfather, the nobleman Stanisław Strawiński took part in a plot to kidnap and possibly kill Stanisław August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland (they did manage to kidnap him but the king talked his kidnapper out of the whole thing). The reason? The king was weak and fell under too much of a Russian influence (he was Catharine the Great's lover). So it is quite an irony that at least some of Stanisław Strawiński's descendants would be russified to such an extent. (There were generally two offshoots: the "Polish" Stravinskys and the russified or "Russian" Stravinskys living in Petersburg in the late 19th/early 20th century. They were not on speaking terms.)

Incidentally, the idea of the abduction came from none other but Kazimierz Pułaski, who had to flee once it was revealed, and ended up in America, where he earned the nickname of "the father of American cavalry".

Sorry for the off-topic aside. Couldn't help myself.

I seem to remember that Sufjan Stevens sings about Kazimierz Pułaski day on his superb Illi-noise album. Now we're really OT.

[karlhenning]

I've always found it perplexing (though it isn't all that unprecedented) that Igor Stravinsky, while a descendant of an old Polish noble family (whose recorded history dates back to the 17th century), held such strong anti-Polish sentiments (his sarcastic remarks during his stay in Warsaw in 1965 clash more than a bit with the image of a "polite, courteous and helpful" Stravinsky that can be found in various sources; such as the Wikipedia ). The real irony is in the history of the family. In 1771 Igor's great grandfather, the nobleman Stanisław Strawiński took part in a plot to kidnap and possibly kill Stanisław August Poniatowski, the last king of Poland (they did manage to kidnap him but the king talked his kidnapper out of the whole thing). The reason? The king was weak and fell under too much of a Russian influence (he was Catharine the Great's lover). So it is quite an irony that at least some of Stanisław Strawiński's descendants would be russified to such an extent. (There were generally two offshoots: the "Polish" Stravinskys and the russified or "Russian" Stravinskys living in Petersburg in the late 19th/early 20th century. They were not on speaking terms.)

Incidentally, the idea of the abduction came from none other but Kazimierz Pułaski, who had to flee once it was revealed, and ended up in America, where he earned the nickname of "the father of American cavalry".

Sorry for the off-topic aside. Couldn't help myself.

Au contraire, most interesting, Maciek!  It can all be such a tangle, eh?

[Jo498]

Any special recommendations for 1-3 (or one of these 3)?
I have more than enough recordings of 4-6, but only Markevitch for 1-3 (+ a live Silvestri (BBC) 2nd in so-so sound). Which seems unfair... My favorite of these is #1.

Because of the abundance of 4-6 I am considering Dorati (but the sound seems dated and I guess that his approach is fairly similar to the "lean & mean" Markevitch), Karajan or Svetlanov, all of which have two-disc-sets of 1-3.

But I am also tempted by the Ormandy/RCA that has the "7th" (cobbled together from the fragments of the 3rd piano concerto), concertos and other fillers and Muti because his box is also very cheap. So if these are very good in 1-3 this could also be an option...

[aligreto]

Any special recommendations for 1-3 (or one of these 3)?
I have more than enough recordings of 4-6, but only Markevitch for 1-3 (+ a live Silvestri (BBC) 2nd in so-so sound). Which seems unfair... My favorite of these is #1.

Because of the abundance of 4-6 I am considering Dorati (but the sound seems dated and I guess that his approach is fairly similar to the "lean & mean" Markevitch), Karajan or Svetlanov, all of which have two-disc-sets of 1-3.

But I am also tempted by the Ormandy/RCA that has the "7th" (cobbled together from the fragments of the 3rd piano concerto), concertos and other fillers and Muti because his box is also very cheap. So if these are very good in 1-3 this could also be an option...

I particularly like the Dorati I must say. No. 1 has wonderful energy. The exuberance and exhilaration of both the music and the performance of No. 2 are simply electrifying. No. 3 concludes with a glorious Finale.

[Brian]

Dorati definitely. Also, the live LPO/Vladimir Jurowski recording of 1 is my favorite - he draws such extraordinary warm playing from the strings. That's a mighty fine series overall (it's missing 2 and 3; I was at the terrific live recording of 5).