Your alternative Big Five

[springrite]

OK, so we have a poll of your favorite among the Big Five (Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, NewYork and Philadelphia).

Who would you choose for your alternative Big Five (five not from the list above but not necessarily 6 thru 10, by which I mean you may even consider them among the very top)?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Interesting and pertinent question, but I would have to answer almost entirely on the basis of recordings, past and present:

Los Angeles
San Francisco
Pittsburgh
Minnesota

The fifth slot is harder, due to fewer or later recordings:

Seattle
Houston or Dallas
St. Louis

Special case, enjoying a sort of recording golden age back in the 60s:
Utah

[springrite]

For me, the three sure things are: LA, SF and Pittsburgh.

After that, I may put Detroit there. I really haven't heard much from Detroit in the past 20 years. But from before that, I really like the edginess of the Detroit sound. To be sure, it is one of the orchestra's that has its own unique sound, which I think most US orchestras tend to lack.

To round up the five, Minnesota.

[Mirror Image]

Let's see...

(In no particular order)

Nashville SO
Los Angeles PO
Seattle Symphony
San Francisco SO
Minnesota Orchestra

[Sergeant Rock]

Pittsbugh Symphony Orchestra
Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra
Detroit Symphony Orchestra
Albany Symphony Orchestra (based on their Lloyd series)
Atlanta Symphony Orchestra


Sarge

[Brian]

Pittsburgh is I think possibly the best orchestra in the world at this moment (based on recordings - really need to go see before Honeck leaves).

After that LA, SF, Seattle, and - as others have said - the #5 spot is harder. Likely either Nashville, Detroit, or Dallas. My hometown band is sadly underrepresented on disc. Minnesota is technically excellent but what Vänskä is doing with/to them is truly bizarre, kind of like the excellence that allowed Norrington's oddness to continue with his SWR band. Baltimore should at least be mentioned here for their excellent partnership with Alsop.

[amw]

I think the alternative big five is really a "big four"—Los Angeles, San Francisco, Pittsburgh & Minnesota—in that those would be the only choices that would gain a broad consensus. Fifth spot would be a difficult choice between Atlanta, Baltimore, Dallas, Detroit, Houston, Nashville, Seattle, St. Louis.

Alternately, based on the premise of the five orchestras that are the best in the United States at the present moment, No. 5 could be Chicago, as the only one of the "big five" that holds up today. (Though New York and Boston are threatening comebacks.)

[vers la flamme]

After that LA, SF, Seattle, and - as others have said - the #5 spot is harder. Likely either Nashville, Detroit, or Dallas. My hometown band is sadly underrepresented on disc. Minnesota is technically excellent but what Vänskä is doing with/to them is truly bizarre, kind of like the excellence that allowed Norrington's oddness to continue with his SWR band. Baltimore should at least be mentioned here for their excellent partnership with Alsop.

Curious what you mean by that. What is Vänskä doing to them?

I'll have to think about this a bit and write back.

[Brian]

Curious what you mean by that. What is Vänskä doing to them?.

I found a comment I wrote about them a month ago, and it turns out that was also in reply to you.  Part if it may be BIS sound engineering. But the Minnesota recordings now seem to have an almost unnatural technical proficiency, especially the ability to play reeeeeeally quietly, like at the start of Mahler 1 or in the funeral march of Beethoven 3. Probably never heard anybody play so quietly better! But honestly often (such as in that funeral march)...I can't hear them.

Another thing, again maybe engineers are involved, but when listening on headphones the soundstage is a bit like all the musicians are spaced very far apart, coronavirus style. That combined with the extreme dynamic control/precision makes them sound like a precise machine, a Swiss watch orchestra. Our previous conversation (with the GS Moeller) suggested Vänskä is like Boulez in terms of transparency, precision, and efficiency, but unlike Boulez in that he frequently deviates from the score with his own ideas.

Personally I prefer a richer more blended, "warm" sound out of an orchestra, which is why I'm not a fan. The better recordings they've made have more emotional warmth: Sibelius 6 and 7, Beethoven piano concertos. Whereas others seem very calculated and technical, like Mahler 1.

Maybe I will listen to their Beethoven symphony cycle again. It's now possible to compare them directly to Pittsburgh in all-new recordings by both orchestras of LVB 3,5,7.

[vers la flamme]

I found a comment I wrote about them a month ago, and it turns out that was also in reply to you.  Part if it may be BIS sound engineering. But the Minnesota recordings now seem to have an almost unnatural technical proficiency, especially the ability to play reeeeeeally quietly, like at the start of Mahler 1 or in the funeral march of Beethoven 3. Probably never heard anybody play so quietly better! But honestly often (such as in that funeral march)...I can't hear them.

Another thing, again maybe engineers are involved, but when listening on headphones the soundstage is a bit like all the musicians are spaced very far apart, coronavirus style. That combined with the extreme dynamic control/precision makes them sound like a precise machine, a Swiss watch orchestra. Our previous conversation (with the GS Moeller) suggested Vänskä is like Boulez in terms of transparency, precision, and efficiency, but unlike Boulez in that he frequently deviates from the score with his own ideas.

Personally I prefer a richer more blended, "warm" sound out of an orchestra, which is why I'm not a fan. The better recordings they've made have more emotional warmth: Sibelius 6 and 7, Beethoven piano concertos. Whereas others seem very calculated and technical, like Mahler 1.

Maybe I will listen to their Beethoven symphony cycle again. It's now possible to compare them directly to Pittsburgh in all-new recordings by both orchestras of LVB 3,5,7.

Ah, I see. Yes, I often find Vänskä to be somewhat cold myself, but I do suspect BIS is at least partially to blame. I can't help but wonder if they wouldn't sound much more effective live.

I'll try not to ask you again this time.