Schoenberg Problem

[some guy]

  That reminds me. I have a rant of my own.

Here it is, and what it is, too: Why are there people still ranting about things from over fifty years ago?

Well I don't think we should negotiate with Kruschev, either.

And bobby sox are destroying morality.

[Karl Henning]

Corsets!  Losing the corsets was the living end of Western civilization!

[some guy]

 

I think you'll find that losing the corsets was necessary for continuing Western civilization.

[Karl Henning]

Losing, loosing, lacing . . . .

[Scarpia]

I think you'll find that losing the corsets was necessary for continuing Western civilization.

Now we have Spanx.

[Mirror Image]

Getting back to the thread topic...

Haven't heard from John in a few days. I wonder if he's re-listened to any of Schoenberg's music that has been giving him problems? Only time will tell.

[snyprrr]

Why are there people still ranting about things from over fifty years ago?

CAUSE THEY'RE ON THE YOU TUBE!! 30 MINUTE FIFTHS!! IT'S THE DEVIL'S MUSIC!! SAVE THE CHILDREN!!

What was the exact date on that piece? It was probably being conceived at the same time as the Kennedy Assassination (other theories aside)! I wouldn't doubt it.

I'll take it as tacit agreement that none of you defended Young's... "Composition" for its Artistic Vision. I'm right again!



...and...



I know some are thinking right now,... JdP's not here anymore, Sean's gone... NO! ,... I'm shocked that you would even THINK such as thing! Hm.

[snyprrr]

Why are there people still ranting about things from over fifty years ago?

It's because of all this that we're all in this today. Y'see? It's because of 30min. 5ths in the '60s that we have Lady Gaga today.

Not to mention the current trend of Rock Country. Did you see the CMA? Because there's no longer any Rock Music (of... any kind?), Country Music has had to adopt the rock beat, so, Country now sounds like Nickelback with country vocals. Do you now see why all is lost? Country Rock has turned into Rock Country,... the continuum has turned in on itself... we've actually started going BACK in time ...


Yes, I know... you were wondering that too?

Anyhow, you see why all is lost, right?




RIGHT?!

[snyprrr]

Look, Schoenberg's fun, but, because his rhythm never evolved beyond the Neo-Classical, we HAVE to look at him

nevermind... listening to the String Trio, which is quite evolved. I'd say this may be Schoenberg's single Greatest Movement?

[snyprrr]

Getting back to the thread topic...

Haven't heard from John in a few days. I wonder if he's re-listened to any of Schoenberg's music that has been giving him problems? Only time will tell.

I think John would like Herz... what's it? The short vocal piece with the shimmering quality.

[Mirror Image]

I think John would like Herz... what's it? The short vocal piece with the shimmering quality.

Herzgewächse.

[Karl Henning]

Incidentally, even if no one were writing serialist music anymore, that fact would not render serialist music unworthy of attention.  Just saying.

[petrarch]

I'll take it as tacit agreement that none of you defended Young's... "Composition" for its Artistic Vision. I'm right again!

If it doesn't float your boat, why should you care? I listened to it and didn't find it as offensive as you did. Sometimes, all that is needed is a Scelsi-like focus: Listening to the "heartbeat of the sound" to "uncover a whole new universe within".

[Karl Henning]

Look, Schoenberg's fun, but, because his rhythm never evolved beyond the Neo-Classical, we HAVE to look at him

nevermind... listening to the String Trio, which is quite evolved. I'd say this may be Schoenberg's single Greatest Movement?

So . . . is declaring movements to be this or that composer's greatest that important to you?

[xochitl]

i'm incredibly glad there are people here who can think and question like the above posts

i came from years spent in an indie rock forum and it astonished me that no one wanted to question their tastes.  it was all 'this sucks' or 'this is good', and dismissed entire genres of music as unworthy, and whenever some kind of concensus was made, everyone who didnt agree with the 'respected' views of the most prominent posters was ridiculed.

i'm a little sad that some classical listeners are just as closeminded, but overall we seem to be alrite

[Karl Henning]

When I attempt to compose I love working in Schoenberg's 12-tone method, more specifically with inspiration coming from Milton Babbitt and Charles Wuorinen.  I consider it a wonderfully flexible and expressive musical system.

Dude, always glad to find another Wuorinen fan! Fair disclosure: I'm a former student of his.

[snyprrr]

So . . . is declaring movements to be this or that composer's greatest that important to you?

Come on Karl, you should know me by now... OF COURSE IT IS!! Absolute certainty is a great thing, no? btw- who would argue the point? Which single movement is... BETTER?

And, of course, 'better' CAN be qualified!!

If it doesn't float your boat, why should you care? I listened to it and didn't find it as offensive as you did. Sometimes, all that is needed is a Scelsi-like focus: Listening to the "heartbeat of the sound" to "uncover a whole new universe within".

But... but... it was JUST an oscillator left ON!! I mean, a Scelsi-like focus is not needed here simply to comprehend the 'B' note and the 'F#' note. I mean, the 'piece' goes on way passed the scientifically rendered optimal timing requirements. Young was obviously high and simply forgot to turn the oscillator off. That does not constitute 'Composing'. Accidentally hitting the 'F#' button when the 'B' button was already pushed does not constitute conscious 'putting together of elements'. If his teacher gave him an 'A' on this (I'm being cheeky), then his teacher is

Here's my problem with this WHOLE CONVERSATION: everyone here is ragging on my examples, but, NO ONE has said they actually LIKE (and would further study/listen) any of these examples. petrarch,... you said "if it doesn't float your boat",... well, my REAL INTEREST here is... Does it float YOUR boat? That's what I'm really at here. Do YOU really really appreciate Eve Beglarian's 'balloon fart music'?

I want the 'defenders' of this stuff to come out and openly declare that they LOOOVE this stuff and that's the way of the future, and, it's the only thing I listen to because everything else sucks by comparison. If the world were to end today, you would rather hear this stuff than LvB (or whatever else).

No one will actually defend this 'music', but everybody will rag on me for pointing out that the emperor has no clothes. La Monte Young HAS NO CLOTHES in the above mentioned 'Composition'.


I was sitting there late last night, when, all of a sudden, I heard the high pitched sound inside of myself (one of the two sounds you hear in Cage's hyperbaric chamber). o, I sat there and listened for a while, just high white noise. Then I did something else. I had MASTERED that .music., and now it was time to move on. There were no more mysteries to be solved here... time to try a little harder 'puzzle'.


I am wondering, do you all people learn this stuff in a CLASSROOM? Has anyone here had some libtard (oh please don't act like they all aren't) music teacher who promoted this stuff? Forgive me for wondering what role LSD has had in this realm of operations.


I do happen to think that I'm the most wildly openminded person out there. It's just that I had my openminded 'period', and now, yes, I can look back on the '60s and declare with absolute confidence that there is nothing to see here. NOTHING that can't be done by a 5 year old genius, or even a toddler on a sugar high. Sure, give me the power of the Berkeley Music Dept., and I'm sure I too can come up with some happening thing.


Maybe you all haven't heard my Sonata for Breasts? hmm? How's THAT for pure, utter, unadulterated GENIUS?!!

I know Sarge can see the 'tolling of the bells'!!



THE CLINCHER: All these Posts I have written are MUSIC!! You CANNOT deny it, since, in this GMG world, apparently, ALL THINGS are allowed and accepted. Just the fact that I have engaged people is the supreme test of my success here as a Musical Composer.

All theories are in my head. I create beautiful music simply by BEING!! Can't you hear it NOW, in your own head? Please, tell me what music you are hearing in your head right now,... it belongs to ME!! I created that tone, that phrase in your mind, simply by suggesting it. Bet you can't wait to hear the cd!!


NO ONE on this whole Forum ever seems to have a critical bone in their body. Just because I'm the ONLY ONE (yes, I'm such a victim ) who understands that time is short and you had better CHOOSE what you listen to wisely. Surely, this Post has now taken a few minutes of your time that you will never get back. Maybe you had planned to listen to a La Monte Young piece, but, instead, you read this Post. Do you still have time for the Young, or, do you realize you had better get crackin' on the real Masters? Surely, if it were between Bach and Cage,... it is my heartfelt belief that 100% of you would choose Bach,... not counting the sarcastic and Maher-inspired (sarcasm at all costs) amongst us. Surely, if there WERE an Eternity after we die, you would choose your 10 Desert Island Disc VERY VERY carefully,... and,... I DARE SAY, La Monte Young's oscillator 'Composition' WILL NOT BE ON THAT LIST!! If I bet my life on it, you would only choose the Young to punish me, and, I AM SURE, you would really rather have had the Bach. Thinking of my punishment will wane in Eternity, and, you will still be left with the oscillator.


Who hear, if they were actually going to Compose something, would present the GMG Judging Board with Young's oscillator? Remember, was it 'M'?, who had the piece 'To B or Not to B'? Was that done out of a genius creative principle, or, just out of sarcasm (the lowest form of humor)?

Liberal commie composers write this kind of stuff to destroy western civ.
















did ya like that last one, haha?? anyhow,... can anyone come up with an answer other than 'just accept everything'? If I accept everything, I also accept my own destruction, and, why would anyone want to accept their own destruction simply to show people how openminded they are?

[snyprrr]

I think you are the only one who feels it is necessary to go on and on and on about music you don't like and actually think other people care.

No, I know they don't care, but, the issue I was raising is that leaving an oscillator with two tones on (probably by accident) is not MUSIC. Unless, of course, you hear the songs of angels every time I ease myself! I just get the feeling that everything is saying that, just because we have ears, EVERYTHING we hear is 'music'. Isn't that a bit arrogant? Perhaps the guttural sounds of your enemy's death is 'music' to one's ears, but, really?, is THAT where the Forum is taking this? Why are people defending sound as Art?

Thousands of years from now, when they find my Posts, they will MARVEL at this lone dissenter's foresight! My work is done here!!



(poor Schoenberg Thread,... poor JOHN! haha!!)

[some guy]

I would have jumped in earlier about this, but I do have other things to do (no, really!).

And its going on makes the upcoming observation even more pointed.

But this oscillator thing snyprrr's been obsessing over is a performance. Any anyone could find out in a second or two. The piece was initially made for human performers to perform. And while switching an oscillator on is a perfectly legitimate way to perform the piece, it's not the only way. And the piece is not about just leaving an oscillator on.

In any event, snyprrr's rants completely leave out the date, as I mentioned before.

1960.

Really? You're ranting about a piece from over fifty years ago? And on a Schoenberg thread. Come on, dude! You should be ranting about pieces from over a century ago!!

[Karl Henning]

snypsss, to bring the discussion back on topic . . . and while I see that you have, in that capacious judicial chamber which for convenience's sake we shall call your mind, partly rehabilitated the magnificent Op.45 String Trio . . . what (if any) quarrel do you have with the Schoenberg string quartets (since I seem to recall this is an idiom you particularly favor — I very nearly said obsess over)?