Author Topic: New Releases  (Read 1473341 times)

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Offline betterthanfine

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8620 on: April 22, 2019, 12:47:04 PM »

Very much looking forward to this one. I heard Davidsen sing the Vier letzte Lieder in Amsterdam a while ago, and was bowled over. This will be a major contender in a crowded field, I'm sure.

Offline Biffo

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8621 on: April 22, 2019, 11:34:36 PM »
Mozart revised the 40th symphony to add clarinets, presumably the original and revised version are both recorded. The Hogwood edition also includes both versions.

The blurb on Amazon UK says -

Following a long maturation process, Jordi Savall presents his interpretation of Mozart's last three symphonies. He has chosen - on this double album - to repeat the 'Symphony No. 40', in order to underline the continuity existing from one work to the other. This is an important dimension of this milestone of the orchestral music in the XVIIIth Century. The Concert des Nations is at its best and put flesh and bone on this vision, in which fluidity and theatricalness dominate.

It seems you get the same version twice, no indication which one. The album doesn't show up on the Alia Vox website yet.

Offline Madiel

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8622 on: April 23, 2019, 12:39:28 AM »
The blurb on Amazon UK says -

Following a long maturation process, Jordi Savall presents his interpretation of Mozart's last three symphonies. He has chosen - on this double album - to repeat the 'Symphony No. 40', in order to underline the continuity existing from one work to the other. This is an important dimension of this milestone of the orchestral music in the XVIIIth Century. The Concert des Nations is at its best and put flesh and bone on this vision, in which fluidity and theatricalness dominate.

It seems you get the same version twice, no indication which one. The album doesn't show up on the Alia Vox website yet.

Ugh. If you're going to offer relatively short measure on your discs just own up to it.

If someone said "Mozart wrote a set of 3 symphonies. They weren't designed to fit neatly on CD. That's life." it'd be a point in that person's favour. Instead we get this kind of nonsense that pretends we aren't all capable of switching from one disc to another ourselves, and/or ignores the number of people that listen in other formats anyway.

Seriously, is the streaming/download version going to repeat as well?

There are plenty of idiotic blurbs around, but that ranks right up there.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 12:52:19 AM by Madiel »
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Offline Biffo

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8623 on: April 23, 2019, 02:07:16 AM »
Ugh. If you're going to offer relatively short measure on your discs just own up to it.

If someone said "Mozart wrote a set of 3 symphonies. They weren't designed to fit neatly on CD. That's life." it'd be a point in that person's favour. Instead we get this kind of nonsense that pretends we aren't all capable of switching from one disc to another ourselves, and/or ignores the number of people that listen in other formats anyway.

Seriously, is the streaming/download version going to repeat as well?

There are plenty of idiotic blurbs around, but that ranks right up there.

A few years ago there was similar tweddle from Harnonourt. He claimed Nos 39, 40 & 41 were really one work and should be listened to continuosly. I don't know how the CD release was laid out but I did try his performances on Spotify. I wasn't convinced by his thesis or the individual performances.

Offline Madiel

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8624 on: April 23, 2019, 02:16:56 AM »
A few years ago there was similar tweddle from Harnonourt. He claimed Nos 39, 40 & 41 were really one work and should be listened to continuosly. I don't know how the CD release was laid out but I did try his performances on Spotify. I wasn't convinced by his thesis or the individual performances.

Yes, I remember that release. Though I never heard it.

I don't know that I agree with the theory at all. But I would prefer that sort of eccentricity over what appears to be little more than an attempt to persuade people to pay the price of 2 CDs for 1.5 CDs worth of music.
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Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8625 on: April 23, 2019, 05:27:19 AM »
The blurb on Amazon UK says -

Following a long maturation process, Jordi Savall presents his interpretation of Mozart's last three symphonies. He has chosen - on this double album - to repeat the 'Symphony No. 40', in order to underline the continuity existing from one work to the other. This is an important dimension of this milestone of the orchestral music in the XVIIIth Century. The Concert des Nations is at its best and put flesh and bone on this vision, in which fluidity and theatricalness dominate.

It seems you get the same version twice, no indication which one. The album doesn't show up on the Alia Vox website yet.

 ???

And how does that help? You listen to Symphony No 40 a second time to heal the trauma of having to put the next disc in?

How am I supposed to listen to Saval recordings now that I know what an idiot he is?
 :laugh:

Offline Mandryka

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8626 on: April 23, 2019, 05:30:57 AM »
The blurb on Amazon UK says -

the continuity existing from one work to the other. This is an important dimension of this milestone of the orchestral music in the XVIIIth Century.


This is like Harnoncourt's idea in his final recording of the last three Mozart symphonies. It must be something being talked about by people who talk about Mozart.

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Offline Ken B

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8627 on: April 23, 2019, 06:03:35 AM »
This is like Harnoncourt's idea in his final recording of the last three Mozart symphonies. It must be something being talked about by people who talk about Mozart.
Don’t be quite so dismissive. I was just reading Nannerl's letters.
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Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8628 on: April 23, 2019, 06:54:59 AM »
This is like Harnoncourt's idea in his final recording of the last three Mozart symphonies. It must be something being talked about by people who talk about Mozart.

I don't find the idea that the thee works form an "instrumental oratorio" particularly compelling, but at least the Harnoncourt recording was marketed as a two discs for the price of one deal. No harm done. I'm willing to forgive Harnoncourt his eccentricities because I enjoy his recordings so much, generally.

Offline Biffo

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8629 on: April 23, 2019, 07:03:38 AM »
I don't find the idea that the thee works form an "instrumental oratorio" particularly compelling, but at least the Harnoncourt recording was marketed as a two discs for the price of one deal. No harm done. I'm willing to forgive Harnoncourt his eccentricities because I enjoy his recordings so much, generally.

I enjoy Savall's recordings but I won't be buying this one. No doubt it will become available cheaper than Amazon's £19.24 but I already have enough versions of the Mozart Symphonies; I would rather spend the money on something else by Savall.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8630 on: April 23, 2019, 07:10:27 AM »
I don't find the idea that the thee works form an "instrumental oratorio" particularly compelling, but at least the Harnoncourt recording was marketed as a two discs for the price of one deal. No harm done. I'm willing to forgive Harnoncourt his eccentricities because I enjoy his recordings so much, generally.

Are the performances identical, or is it like when the aria returns in 988?

There’s something quite interesting going on here. It’s as if Savall wants to get control of how we listen. It’s not enough for us to listen to him play a symphony, or a movement. We’re supposed to relish the transitions. It’s such a bold thing to do, and so attention seeking, that it makes me think that he must have something new to say with the music, otherwise he’d have known he’d end up with egg on his face.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 07:12:58 AM by Mandryka »
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Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8631 on: April 23, 2019, 07:16:14 AM »
Are the performances identical, or is it like when the aria returns in 988

Are you asking about Saval? Harnoncourt just had 39 and 40 on disc 1 and 41 on disc 2, I believe.


Offline Mandryka

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8632 on: April 23, 2019, 07:16:57 AM »
Are you asking about Saval? Harnoncourt just had 39 and 40 on disc 1 and 41 on disc 2, I believe.

Savall.
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Offline Brian

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8633 on: April 23, 2019, 09:51:12 AM »
It’s not enough for us to listen to him play a symphony, or a movement. We’re supposed to relish the transitions. It’s such a bold thing to do
But this is how CDs have worked since they were invented. If you don't press pause on the remote, they move right along from one symphony to the next...

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8634 on: April 23, 2019, 10:06:12 AM »
I enjoy Savall's recordings but I won't be buying this one. No doubt it will become available cheaper than Amazon's £19.24 but I already have enough versions of the Mozart Symphonies; I would rather spend the money on something else by Savall.

I'm also overloaded with recordings of these works. The silliness of putting two copied of the 40th doesn't help. Plus, the bastard stole the harebrained idea from Harnoncourt! Copycat!  :P
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 10:08:17 AM by Ghost of Baron Scarpia »

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8635 on: April 23, 2019, 10:11:32 AM »
What i really dislike about these new recordings is that you get ALL the repeats whether they belong or not. So much so a late Mozart symphony is almost as long as Schubert's 9th, or that the slow movt of 40 is by far the longest movement in the symphony which completely throws the proportion of the work out of order.

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8636 on: April 23, 2019, 10:17:23 AM »
What i really dislike about these new recordings is that you get ALL the repeats whether they belong or not. So much so a late Mozart symphony is almost as long as Schubert's 9th, or that the slow movt of 40 is by far the longest movement in the symphony which completely throws the proportion of the work out of order.

Huh? With repeats the proportion is exactly as Mozart intended. I think he gets to decide if they belong. :)

Personally, I like them all taken, with the possible exception of all of those repeats of repeats in the Menuetto and Trio movements.

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8637 on: April 23, 2019, 10:24:33 AM »
Huh? With repeats the proportion is exactly as Mozart intended. I think he gets to decide if they belong. :)

Personally, I like them all taken, with the possible exception of all of those repeats of repeats in the Menuetto and Trio movements.
Maybe, but looking at this Harnoncourt recording the 2nd mvt of no 40 is an interminable 12+ minutes long which i have a hard time listening to;

« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 10:43:26 AM by Que »

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8638 on: April 23, 2019, 10:30:58 AM »
Maybe, but looking at this Harnoncourt recording the 2nd mvt of no 40 is an interminable 12+ minutes long which i have a hard time listening to;



I like his old recording with the Concertgebouw best, 12:23. Glorious! (To each his own, of course.)



Offline Mandryka

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Re: New Releases
« Reply #8639 on: April 23, 2019, 10:35:43 AM »
Maybe, but looking at this Harnoncourt recording the 2nd mvt of no 40 is an interminable 12+ minutes long which i have a hard time listening to;



I listened to it this afternoon by coincidence, the whole symphony. I didn't enjoy it I'm afraid, but not necessarily because it was too long,

I was looking forward to experiencing the transition into 41 but I didn't get that far.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 10:44:28 AM by Que »
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