New Releases

[Daverz]

The Markevitch Philips box is flying to me right now, the Sydney Piano Competition compilation has been in my car to accompany trips around town, and I'm definitely intrigued by the Kubelik and Ts'ong.

I particularly enjoyed the Beethoven 9th in the Markevitch Philips box.  Too many recordings fall short: either the Adagio is dull or the finale is interminable.  Markevitch is riveting and convincing throughout, and sound and singing are very good.

[mabuse]

Anyone interested in contemporary Polish music ? 









In September also took place the famous festival of contemporary music « Warsaw Autumn »...
Some concerts are available on their website 
https://warszawska-jesien.art.pl/en/2021/programme

[Karl Henning]

Changes in personal taste tend to happen slowly, if they take place, via a variety of factors ... 

Fair enow.

[Karl Henning]

Interesting.  I hadn't heard of Formalism before now.  Not certain about my sources, so am a bit confused as to what he was claiming Shostakovich's methods/works were/meant?  Sorry to go off track here, just curious.  "In a nutshell" is fine if you would care to answer.

PD

"Formalism" was powerful in its vagueness. It was code for those in positions of authority or influence to say, "unsuitable." It was insidious and cynical.

[aukhawk]

A stick made to beat anybody they felt like beating.

[Karl Henning]

A stick made to beat anybody they felt like beating.

Aye.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

"Formalism" was powerful in its vagueness. It was code for those in positions of authority or influence to say, "unsuitable." It was insidious and cynical.

Ah, that explains why I was seeing different definitions as to what it was!

PD

[Mirror Image]

"Formalism" was powerful in its vagueness. It was code for those in positions of authority or influence to say, "unsuitable." It was insidious and cynical.

Not to mention it held no bearing on what the music actually sounded like. The idea of there being a panel of what deems a piece of music acceptable or not is beyond anyone with reason.

[Mandryka]

On the strengths of her version of Triadic Memories, I'd consider purchasing her new Feldman recording. Not that there're so many new recordings of Feldman's music, that one has to make decisions.

One major strength of the Triadic Memories is the sound. It's a bit fast though! Better to let it breathe I think. I like this one more

[Mandryka]

Interesting.  I hadn't heard of Formalism before now.  Not certain about my sources, so am a bit confused as to what he was claiming Shostakovich's methods/works were/meant?  Sorry to go off track here, just curious.  "In a nutshell" is fine if you would care to answer.

PD

Formalism is a major current of thought in critical theory in the early 20th century,  and Russians were its pioneers. The basic idea is that, when you're trying to make sense of something, be it a text in words or a piece of music or a picture, a fruitful approach is to focus on its form and structure, rather than on anything psychological or social. So I can imagine the critics of Shostakovich meant that his music was too much concerned with exploring the form of sound and sound strictures, and not concerned enough with exploring  social truths or truths about human nature.


That being said, I should point out that I know next to nothing about Shostakovich!

[VonStupp]

Formalism is a major current of thought in critical theory in the early 20th century,  and Russians were its pioneers. The basic idea is that, when you're trying to make sense of something, be it a text in words or a piece of music or a picture, a fruitful approach is to focus on its form and structure, rather than on anything psychological or social. So I can imagine the critics of Shostakovich meant that his music was too much concerned with exploring the form of sound and sound strictures, and not concerned enough with exploring  social truths or truths about human nature.

I like this explanation.

I have described myself as a formalist before, simply meaning that I respond to music more strongly if the composer adheres closer to structure, although I never knew if I was using the right term. This might explain why I tend to be a bit dismissive of Debussy, who is more interested in his unique, sometimes pictorial, sensual sound world, moreso than musical form scaffoldings.

VS

[Mirror Image]

This might explain why I tend to be a bit dismissive of Debussy, who is more interested in his unique, sometimes pictorial, sensual sound world, moreso than musical form scaffoldings.

VS

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree here. It has been said that Debussy would agonize over three measures of music for weeks on end until it was absolutely perfect. The fact that his music sounds free doesn't actually mean it lacks structure. In fact, his structuring of music is more rigorous than you think. If you can find it on YouTube, there's a great discussion from Bernstein about Debussy's Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune that is most illuminating.

[VonStupp]

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree here. It has been said that Debussy would agonize over three measures of music for weeks on end until it was absolutely perfect. The fact that his music sounds free doesn't actually mean it lacks structure. In fact, his structuring of music is more rigorous than you think. If you can find it on YouTube, there's a great discussion from Bernstein about Debussy's Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune that is most illuminating.

Oh, I have no doubt there is form and organization in all music; music itself could even possibly be simplistically defined as an organization of pitches.

Debussy was merely an example of what I don't respond to quite as strongly, as I hear more pictures, atmosphere, and program, than I do elements of form, although I have heard his music may be strongly mathematically structured. In music where I do sense more form and structure, there is also atmosphere, mood, and pictorialism, but it must be easier to sense musical forms when I listen.

It is an interesting dichotomy - I know Debussy's music is quite rhythmically difficult, but when I listen, I don't actively hear the rhythms, I hear the textures and atmosphere. Thus I tend towards Debussy recordings that focus on rhythm more than sensuality and mood, because they provide a structure I can grasp when I listen.

Don't write me off as a Debussy hater either, as I return to his music often, and with pleasure; I just have my preferences, I guess.

I will seek out Bernstein's video, however. I generally find pleasure in what he has to say about music. 

VS

[Karl Henning]

Ah, that explains why I was seeing different definitions as to what it was!

PD

I guess the general idea (insofar as "actual musicology" is invoked) — and I once had a surreal-but-unpleasant afternoon when a couple of friends (I almost cast that in scare-quotes as they were pretty dismal friends that day) were pleased to try using this as a cudgel upon me — is the distinction between programmatic and abstract music. the former being Good because The People can Relate to it, the latter being Bad because it disregards What The People Want/Need.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Formalism is a major current of thought in critical theory in the early 20th century,  and Russians were its pioneers. The basic idea is that, when you're trying to make sense of something, be it a text in words or a piece of music or a picture, a fruitful approach is to focus on its form and structure, rather than on anything psychological or social. So I can imagine the critics of Shostakovich meant that his music was too much concerned with exploring the form of sound and sound strictures, and not concerned enough with exploring  social truths or truths about human nature.


That being said, I should point out that I know next to nothing about Shostakovich!

Interesting...thanks!

PD

I guess the general idea (insofar as "actual musicology" is invoked) — and I once had a surreal-but-unpleasant afternoon when a couple of friends (I almost cast that in scare-quotes as they were pretty dismal friends that day) were pleased to try using this as a cudgel upon me — is the distinction between programmatic and abstract music. the former being Good because The People can Relate to it, the latter being Bad because it disregards What The People Want/Need.

  Poor Karl!    Did you end up having to take a few aspirin after they were gone?

PD

[Karl Henning]

Interesting...thanks!

PD   Poor Karl!    Did you end up having to take a few aspirin after they were gone?

PD

That I did.

[Todd]

Ms Melikyan in chamber music.  Sign me up.



Ms Degand playing Brahms.  Sign me up for that, too.

[Brian]

Darn, I came here to post that Boulez box. That is going to be...large.

I have a really good Supraphon album of Mozart and R. Strauss oboe concertos - plus the Martinu oboe concerto. Guess Barenboim isn't up on his Czech repertoire.

[Mirror Image]

Darn, I came here to post that Boulez box. That is going to be...large.

It will be a large one, indeed:

https://store.deutschegrammophon.com/p51-i0028948609154

[Spotted Horses]

Darn, I came here to post that Boulez box. That is going to be...large.

Decca? In any case, I think a lot of the Boulez on DG was in those "Boulez Conducts Bartok, Mahler, Ravel and Debussy, etc" boxes. He made those recordings when DG was at its absolute low point in audio engineering, from my point of view - overmanipulated, strident, airless, many in the "4D" series. I find his Sony box much more valuable, and I would love to see his recordings for Erato collected. Come to think of it, there was a complete Erato box and I have it.