New Releases

Started by Brian, March 12, 2009, 12:26:29 PM

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Traverso

Quote from: Florestan on June 28, 2023, 06:19:32 AMi tried the Mendelssohn (horrendous, like a mosquito flying around my head, stopped it after 10 seconds), the Schubert (which was devoid of any of the attributes I associate Schubert's music with, stopped it after 10 seconds) and Schumann's Reaper Song, which for some mysterious reasons worked rather well. Verdict: nay.

;D

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Brian on June 27, 2023, 04:04:48 PMUpcoming reissue



Wow! I think I have almost all of it. Some of the best stuff ever in there!
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

The new erato

Well, playing Beethoven on the harpsichord has little to do with autheticity.

Playing music on more modern instruments than they were written for, mostly works. Playing them on instruments they were written for, often works if the instruments are well preserved. Playing music on more older instruments than they were written for, mostly don't work other than for stringed instruments.

Brian



The Hamelin 2CD set also includes Dolly with Cathy Fuller as the other pianist



R. Strauss - Deutsche Motette Op. 62
Sven-David Sandstrom - Four Songs of Love
Messiaen arr. Gottwald - Louange à l'éternité de Jésus
Čopi - He wishes for the cloths of heaven
R. Strauss - Der Abend Op. 34 No. 1
Kastelic - Credo

JBS

Quote from: The new erato on June 28, 2023, 06:56:12 AMWell, playing Beethoven on the harpsichord has little to do with autheticity.

Playing music on more modern instruments than they were written for, mostly works. Playing them on instruments they were written for, often works if the instruments are well preserved. Playing music on more older instruments than they were written for, mostly don't work other than for stringed instruments.

It might have been rather common for people to use a harpsichord, especially one inherited from parent or grandparent, up through the opening years of the 19th century, if they didn't want to put out the money for a new instrument.  But it is hard to imagine, say, Beethoven's Opus 10 on a harpsichord as coming close to anything he intended.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

JBS

Quote from: Florestan on June 28, 2023, 06:19:32 AMi tried the Mendelssohn (horrendous, like a mosquito flying around my head, stopped it after 10 seconds), the Schubert (which was devoid of any of the attributes I associate Schubert's music with, stopped it after 10 seconds) and Schumann's Reaper Song, which for some mysterious reasons worked rather well. Verdict: nay.

I didn't have as intense a reaction, but it didn't really work for me either.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

premont

Quote from: Florestan on June 28, 2023, 06:06:01 AMBeethoven on harpsichord is one of the least attractive things I can think of.  ;D

Yes agree, the harpsichord is completely non-idiomatic to Beethoven's musical idioms, but funnily enough, as you know, Beethoven on harpsichord is better historically substantiated than Bach on modern piano.
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Florestan

Quote from: premont on June 28, 2023, 10:34:42 AMYes agree, the harpsichord is completely non-idiomatic to Beethoven's musical idioms, but funnily enough, as you know, Beethoven on harpsichord is better historically substantiated than Bach on modern .piano.

Under-rehearsed, semi-professional and not very proficient orchestras are amply documented too. Should we reverse to such orchestras for playing, say, Mozart, Haydn or Rossini?  ;D

Beethoven on harpsichord does not sound well and Mendelssohn or Schubert sound horrible. That some people back then, because they inherited their grandfather's harpsichord, played their music on it is irrelevant. Besides, is there any evidence that during his career as a virtuoso, Beethoven played his music on the harpsichord?



Melody is the essence of music. — Mozart

Florestan

Quote from: The new erato on June 28, 2023, 06:56:12 AMWell, playing Beethoven on the harpsichord has little to do with autheticity.

Playing music on more modern instruments than they were written for, mostly works. Playing them on instruments they were written for, often works if the instruments are well preserved. Playing music on more older instruments than they were written for, mostly don't work other than for stringed instruments.

Well, the harpsichord and the piano are stringed instruments after all, aren't they?

One can certainly play Beethoven, Mendelssohn or Shostakovich on the harpsichord --- just as one can play them on the accordion. The question is, why would anyone do that? 

Melody is the essence of music. — Mozart

JBS

Quote from: Florestan on June 28, 2023, 11:22:12 AMWell, the harpsichord and the piano are stringed instruments after all, aren't they?

One can certainly play Beethoven, Mendelssohn or Shostakovich on the harpsichord --- just as one can play them on the accordion. The question is, why would anyone do that? 



I checked Beethoven and Schubert, not Mendelssohn or Shostakovich...

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Mandryka

#15230
Quote from: premont on June 28, 2023, 10:34:42 AMYes agree, the harpsichord is completely non-idiomatic to Beethoven's musical idioms, but funnily enough, as you know, Beethoven on harpsichord is better historically substantiated than Bach on modern piano.

Wasn't the op 5 cello sonata for harpsichord (or piano) and cello? I also just found a woo piece for mandolin and harpsichord, woo 43. Generally in the cello sonatas, where balance equality is a problem with piano, there may be a good case for using harpsichord. Not that I've heard it!

While we're talking about Beethoven, I'll just mention that I  think that the harpsichord is an excellent instrument for nasty noisy bombastic barnstorming battering ram  music.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

DavidW

Quote from: Mandryka on June 28, 2023, 01:02:49 PMWhile we're talking about Beethoven, I'll just mention that I  think that the harpsichord is an excellent instrument for nasty noisy bombastic barnstorming battering ram  music.

That is what I love about Gorecki's harpsichord concerto!

premont

Quote from: premont on June 28, 2023, 10:34:42 AMYes agree, the harpsichord is completely non-idiomatic to Beethoven's musical idioms,

Quote from: Florestan on June 28, 2023, 11:07:17 AMUnder-rehearsed, semi-professional and not very proficient orchestras are amply documented too. Should we reverse to such orchestras for playing, say, Mozart, Haydn or Rossini?  ;D

Beethoven on harpsichord does not sound well and Mendelssohn or Schubert sound horrible. That some people back then, because they inherited their grandfather's harpsichord, played their music on it is irrelevant. Besides, is there any evidence that during his career as a virtuoso, Beethoven played his music on the harpsichord?

Calm down! I wrote just above that I agree with you.
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premont

#15233
Quote from: Mandryka on June 28, 2023, 01:02:49 PMWasn't the op 5 cello sonata for harpsichord (or piano) and cello? I also just found a woo piece for mandolin and harpsichord, woo 43. Generally in the cello sonatas, where balance equality is a problem with piano, there may be a good case for using harpsichord. Not that I've heard it!

It's first and foremost the early piano sonatas which were advertised as being for piano or harpsichord. Op 27.2 is the last to mention the harpsichord, Op. 28 only mentions pianoforte.

Quote from: Mandryka on June 28, 2023, 01:02:49 PMWhile we're talking about Beethoven, I'll just mention that I  think that the harpsichord is an excellent instrument for nasty noisy bombastic barnstorming battering ram  music.

Do you think of Scott Ross' Scarlatti?

Edit: You are right about the cello sonatas op.5, which are advertised as being "pour le clavecin ou pianoforte avec un violoncello obligé".
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Madiel

#15234
Hands up who listens to albums on LP on the grounds that that's how they were originally released?

Honestly, the whole reason that the fortepiano and then the pianoforte were invented is in their names. Yes there are certain kinds of ensemble pieces where the change in balance and tone means that it's best to stick with the harpsichord, but in many cases the insistence on sticking with the harpsichord is an insistence on sticking with the technology that musicians of the time weren't satisfied with. THAT'S WHY THEY CAME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW.

See also everything that Hurwitz has actually said about period string instruments, as opposed to what some people think he's said.

If you want to put music onto a keyboard instrument that can't do dynamics well, it only works if the player is good enough to compensate for that deficiency in the instrument.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: premont on June 28, 2023, 02:03:03 PMCalm down! I wrote just above that I agree with you.

Hey, you misunderstood me, or perhaps I should have used more emoticons. I wasn't angry at all or starting a quarrel with you (God forbid!) and I was well aware of your agreement. I was just commenting on the second part of your post and implying, in a rather humorous (or at least I thought it was so) way that historical evidence for a practice is not necessarily a reason for its revival. And my comments about Mendelssohn and Schubert were based on the recording Mandryka posted.

 :)  ;)  :D  :laugh: [insert angel]

Melody is the essence of music. — Mozart

Florestan

Quote from: premont on June 28, 2023, 02:06:57 PMIt's first and foremost the early piano sonatas which were advertised as being for piano or harpsichord. Op 27.2 is the last to mention the harpsichord, Op. 28 only mentions pianoforte.

Edit: You are right about the cello sonatas op.5, which are advertised as being "pour le clavecin ou pianoforte avec un violoncello obligé".

That's the keyword: advertising. Publishers wanted to sell as much scores as they could, so they perforce had to made them appealing to people who still used harpsichords in their households.  :D 

Let's take Op. 5 No. 1: on the very first page of the piano part there are "piano" and "pianissimo" markings. Good luck differentiating between them on the harpsichord.  :D

The same with Op. 2 No. 1, where on the first page we find "piano", "forte" and "piano" again.  :D

Madiel's observation is spot on:

Quote from: Madiel on June 28, 2023, 02:43:08 PMHonestly, the whole reason that the fortepiano and then the pianoforte were invented is in their names.






Melody is the essence of music. — Mozart

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on June 28, 2023, 02:43:08 PMin many cases the insistence on sticking with the harpsichord is an insistence on sticking with the technology that musicians of the time weren't satisfied with. THAT'S WHY THEY CAME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW.

And given that Beethoven himself was at the forefront of such technological changes, playing his music on the harpsichord is a bitter irony. Given also his notoriously bad temper in such matters, I wonder how he would react to that.  ;D
Melody is the essence of music. — Mozart

aukhawk

Quote from: JBS on June 28, 2023, 12:52:26 PMI checked Beethoven and Schubert, not Mendelssohn or Shostakovich...

Shostakovich


premont

Quote from: Madiel on June 28, 2023, 02:43:08 PMHands up who listens to albums on LP on the grounds that that's how they were originally released?

See the Thirty three and a third thread in the board General Classical Music Discussion.

Quote from: Madiel on June 28, 2023, 02:43:08 PMIf you want to put music onto a keyboard instrument that can't do dynamics well, it only works if the player is good enough to compensate for that deficiency in the instrument.

This is one of the important points in harpsichord playing.
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