Rihm's Wolf Gang

[petrarch]

Verwandlungen

[asin]B0040Y7EZQ[/asin]

The four orchestral pieces that Wolfgang Rihm has so far called Verwandlung all date from the last decade, and stylistically inhabit a world that owes more to Mahler than any other composer. They are allusive, freely associating pieces, the first, second and fourth each just over 15 minutes long, the third nearer 10, and each sets out on its musical journey from a different starting point – a single pitch, a guileless Ländler, a luminous texture, a series of emphatic attacks. The music seems to define its own form as it unfolds, with its long, sinuous instrumental lines, making passing references to a number of composers from Wagner to Sibelius, via Schreker, Strauss and Korngold, as well as toying almost nostalgically with conventional tonality. Verwandlung 2 ends unambiguously on an E flat major chord, while the fourth threatens to settle into D minor as comfortably as a Bruckner symphony. In Rihm's music it seems that everything – the whole of music history – is up for grabs, for reappraisal and for recycling

Andrew Clements

Rihm here has composed a music that flows, that grows organically, whose gestures remind me of music of exactly 100 years ago. Verwandlung 1 is the only one I can listen to without being bothered by the Mahleresque atmosphere and its weight and inertia, though the writing throughout all 4 is precise and concise. Fans of Schoenberg, Mahler and Sibelius should find here a comfortable bridge to a composer from the other end of the 20th century. For me, I'll go back to the Klangbeschreibungen and the various -Konturs.

[snyprrr]

Has anyone seen the horrendous DG cover of the BRAND NEW!!! Rihm/Mutter Chamber Disc !!





Promo Please!!

[not edward]

Agreed that Lichtes Spiel is the highlight of this disc; I wasn't so taken by Dyade, unfortunately. The Currier work has moments but seems a bit diffuse to me, while the Penderecki has the merit of compressing most of the major musical ideas of his last 35 years into a concise five minutes (and demonstrating how much he stretches limited material in his longer works).

One thing that strikes me about Lichtes Spiel is that it's the first time I've felt Rihm has fully puled off a Mozartean/Haydnesque 'lightness' (pace Calvino) in a work. Which isn't to say that it's an uninterrupted summer idyll, for--as throughout the tradition he inhabits--sometimes dark clouds do cover the sun for a while. If, as he gets older, Rihm is tending to play it safe as the successor to Berg, Hartmann and Henze, Lichtes Spiel is a fine example of how his natural intellectual curiosity helps him give the formula a much-needed twist at times.

[Muzition]

I heard one of Rihm's string quartets in a bar once.  I wish I remembered which quartet it was.

I think this thread should win the prize for most creative title.

[Mirror Image]

I'm considering Rihm on Hanssler next:

[Lethevich]

Styx und Lethe I found to be one of his most enjoyable concertos, and Tutuguri seems to represent the composer at his most free to try a little bit of everthing. If you can handle the chamber music of Berg and the like, Rihm should pose no boredom problems - his string quartets are maybe of a more consistent quality than his orchestral music:

http://www.youtube.com/v/pRBxOe9W9yw

Defs wait until Edward's comments, though - he is much better at this than me

[Mirror Image]

Styx und Lethe I found to be one of his most enjoyable concertos, and Tutuguri seems to represent the composer at his most free to try a little bit of everthing. If you can handle the chamber music of Berg and the like, Rihm should pose no boredom problems - his string quartets are maybe of a more consistent quality than his orchestral music:

http://www.youtube.com/v/pRBxOe9W9yw

Defs wait until Edward's comments, though - he is much better at this than me

Thanks Sara for you help. I've only heard a couple of Rihm's works and I've enjoyed what I have heard so far.

[not edward]

I don't know all the pieces on these discs, so it's hard to make a categorical judgement--in my opinion Rihm's output varies widely in both style and quality. Of the discs you've posted the concerto disc with Styx and Lethe is a great cross-section of his first 30 years and can be recommended without hesitation. The disc with the first two symphonies is for the most part a collection of Rihm at his more neo-Romantic from a talented teenager to mid-career; the Verwandlungen disc is some of his more post-Mahlerian writing of recent years.

I wasn't particularly impressed by the vocal works on the last disc; nor the massive Tutuguri (one of his more polystylistic works). The Klangbeschreibung set has been a solid Rihm recommendation for over a decade; I found the title pieces to be somewhat reminiscent of Varese (with some hints of late Nono thrown in); Morphonie--the breakthrough piece that made his name--is a lengthy post-Hartmannesque single movement essay for string quartet and orchestra. And that's about all I can say about these.

I'll echo Lethe on his chamber music being more consistent; the Arditti disc of quartets 3/5/8 is a great introduction, and col legno (?) has recorded the lot. Also if you can get the DG20/21 disc of Jagden und Formen, that's a really fun romp. (Random tip: I think one of his best early works is the set of three Fremde Szenen, early examples of his lifetime fascination with Schumann's music.)

[Mirror Image]

I don't know all the pieces on these discs, so it's hard to make a categorical judgement--in my opinion Rihm's output varies widely in both style and quality. Of the discs you've posted the concerto disc with Styx and Lethe is a great cross-section of his first 30 years and can be recommended without hesitation. The disc with the first two symphonies is for the most part a collection of Rihm at his more neo-Romantic from a talented teenager to mid-career; the Verwandlungen disc is some of his more post-Mahlerian writing of recent years.

I wasn't particularly impressed by the vocal works on the last disc; nor the massive Tutuguri (one of his more polystylistic works). The Klangbeschreibung set has been a solid Rihm recommendation for over a decade; I found the title pieces to be somewhat reminiscent of Varese (with some hints of late Nono thrown in); Morphonie--the breakthrough piece that made his name--is a lengthy post-Hartmannesque single movement essay for string quartet and orchestra. And that's about all I can say about these.

I'll echo Lethe on his chamber music being more consistent; the Arditti disc of quartets 3/5/8 is a great introduction, and col legno (?) has recorded the lot. Also if you can get the DG20/21 disc of Jagden und Formen, that's a really fun romp. (Random tip: I think one of his best early works is the set of three Fremde Szenen, early examples of his lifetime fascination with Schumann's music.)

Thanks for the detailed feedback, Edward. I'm still probably going to go with all of these Hanssler recordings.

[petrarch]

I don't know all the pieces on these discs, so it's hard to make a categorical judgement--in my opinion Rihm's output varies widely in both style and quality. Of the discs you've posted the concerto disc with Styx and Lethe is a great cross-section of his first 30 years and can be recommended without hesitation. The disc with the first two symphonies is for the most part a collection of Rihm at his more neo-Romantic from a talented teenager to mid-career; the Verwandlungen disc is some of his more post-Mahlerian writing of recent years.

I wasn't particularly impressed by the vocal works on the last disc; nor the massive Tutuguri (one of his more polystylistic works). The Klangbeschreibung set has been a solid Rihm recommendation for over a decade; I found the title pieces to be somewhat reminiscent of Varese (with some hints of late Nono thrown in); Morphonie--the breakthrough piece that made his name--is a lengthy post-Hartmannesque single movement essay for string quartet and orchestra. And that's about all I can say about these.

I'll echo Lethe on his chamber music being more consistent; the Arditti disc of quartets 3/5/8 is a great introduction, and col legno (?) has recorded the lot. Also if you can get the DG20/21 disc of Jagden und Formen, that's a really fun romp. (Random tip: I think one of his best early works is the set of three Fremde Szenen, early examples of his lifetime fascination with Schumann's music.)

I agree with almost all of the above, with the exception that Tutuguri caught me by surprise. After a not very good reaction to Hamlet-Maschine, I wasn't expecting Tutuguri to fare any better, but it did--I like it a lot. Of the Dis-Kontur/Lichtzwang/Sub-Kontur disc, there is one of the -Konturs that is average, but the other one is very good (sorry don't remember which, it's been a while since I played that CD).

To the above recommendations I would add:
- The violin and piano music CD on CPO, containing Antlitz, Phantom und Eskapade, Hekton and the Violin Sonata;
- Kein Firmament, a personal favorite of mine, available on CPO, also containing Sine Nomine;
- Ins Offene/sphere;
- Fetzen.

But there are others... The Chiffre cycle has some good stuff, although I found a couple of the pieces to be just downright annoying; the string quartets on Col Legno by the Minguet Quartet are very good, and you can perceive the stylistic evolution of the composer through that cycle (although the Arditti disc is the reference).

[snyprrr]

I don't know all the pieces on these discs, so it's hard to make a categorical judgement--in my opinion Rihm's output varies widely in both style and quality. Of the discs you've posted the concerto disc with Styx and Lethe is a great cross-section of his first 30 years and can be recommended without hesitation. The disc with the first two symphonies is for the most part a collection of Rihm at his more neo-Romantic from a talented teenager to mid-career; the Verwandlungen disc is some of his more post-Mahlerian writing of recent years.

I wasn't particularly impressed by the vocal works on the last disc; nor the massive Tutuguri (one of his more polystylistic works). The Klangbeschreibung set has been a solid Rihm recommendation for over a decade; I found the title pieces to be somewhat reminiscent of Varese (with some hints of late Nono thrown in); Morphonie--the breakthrough piece that made his name--is a lengthy post-Hartmannesque single movement essay for string quartet and orchestra. And that's about all I can say about these.

I'll echo Lethe on his chamber music being more consistent; the Arditti disc of quartets 3/5/8 is a great introduction, and col legno (?) has recorded the lot. Also if you can get the DG20/21 disc of Jagden und Formen, that's a really fun romp. (Random tip: I think one of his best early works is the set of three Fremde Szenen, early examples of his lifetime fascination with Schumann's music.)

Jadgen und Formen: pulled this out the other night, out of the blue. Is that a tuba solo, oh I don't know, somewhere in the mid-beginning? That is one of the strangest sounds ever. The other thing I noticed is that it always sounds as if the piece is ending, but then the tension comes back, almost Simpson+Lindberg like. This 20/21 disc has been 5 Stars since its release, an obvious Victory & MustHave.

Violin Concertos: we now have two DGs, and the new one is getting good press here.

other DG: Depart, bildlos,weglos


CPO: there's a disc of brass music, Kein Firmament(?), and something else, that got bad reviews from a trusted source. There's a disc of Violin&Piano that really doesn't even sound all that interesting,... and a cd of Lieder (yikes, what can that sound like?),...

oh yes, and as you say, the disc of Piano Trios, and the disc of String Trios, BOTH, are Rihm at his late '70s/early '80s BEST. There is also a baritone String Trio on Koch, and, along with that 3/5/8 Arditti disc (with ABQ filling in No.4), you have Rihm's Chamber Strings in a nutshell. I look forward to hearing SQs 6-7, and, that new disc with the Fetzen Cycle is next on the list.

Chiffres: the more I heard this Kairos disc (or even the CPO), the more I heard Jagden und Formen in this music, to the point I abandoned these 'pieces' for the DG 'slab'. I mean, it's really the same material, right? Rihm does this all the time (Fetzen).

Clarinet Quintet: I haven't heard the cd of this. Anyone?






This seems to be at least the main portion of his Chamber Music. I don't know anyone who is clamoring for more Rihm Vocal Works. That leaves the Orchestral Music.

SOOOO,... other than the DG discs, and whatever one-off, is the consensus that the Hanssler Styx und Lethe cd is the very best place to go first, for those of us who have been slightly wary of expanding our 'safe' view of Rihm (holding to those cds we already love, and afraid of the new (which, admittedly, has quite a few critics))?

[petrarch]

Clarinet Quintet: I haven't heard the cd of this. Anyone?

Typical late Rihm, focusing on the line and flow and looking back to the past repertoire. The quintet reminds me of a slowed-down Jagden und Formen at times. It also has some reworked material taken from Fetzen. A worthwhile work, but not one that I would put on the list of my Rihm all-time favorites.

[snyprrr]

Typical late Rihm, focusing on the line and flow and looking back to the past repertoire. The quintet reminds me of a slowed-down Jagden und Formen at times. It also has some reworked material taken from Fetzen. A worthwhile work, but not one that I would put on the list of my Rihm all-time favorites.

The Usual Suspects?

[petrarch]

The Usual Suspects?

Most likely; I have mentioned a few in a post earlier today.

[snyprrr]

Fetzen (Winter & Winter)

I was surely compelled to go for this second Rihm/Arditti outing, which contains a String Quartet, Piano Quintet, and Cycle of pieces for accordion & SQ, all based on the same 'fetzen', or,'scraps'. Since the music gets reused on this cd, the question is: do you like the materials assembled?

I was quite taken from the 'hello' of String Quartet No.12, a skittish and frenetic 13min. piece full of classic Rihm. For me, Rihm's hallmark is that I can always follow his writing as the pencil is hitting the paper: he sounds like he's writing straight from the fount of his imagination; I can practically hear the shards of pencil against paper. Rihm is a very physical Composer, would you say? The Piano Quintet 'Interscriptum' is like another facet of the same material, and I like this particular Piano Quintet. It is very bristling with energy, and yet never gets hysterical. The integration of the piano into the texture makes for a great back and forth comparison (they are not equal).

The Fetzen Cycle proper consists of pieces for accordion & string quartet which consist of the same musical material which eventually ends up in the other two pieces. I have been wary of the Modern Accordion (I have the companion disc of Pintscher,... which is ok (it gets better by being next to this though)), but here, Rihm really impressed me with his writing for accordion. In places it slithers below the strings, and makes some pretty quacky sounds!


Sincerely, this Winter & Winter cd absolutely sounds spectacular (as an SQ recording it's just lusciously beautiful), and the Ardittis actually seem to 'forge' a Rihm 'sound': perfection of its kind. This is one classy Rihm issue here. Even the cover is so cool!

Rihm + Arditti = Solid Gold!

[Lethevich]

The pencil-paper analogy is a good way to descibe his late quartets - there is a feeling that the composer is perhaps churning out a bit too fast, and yet it's quality music, but with a raw edge because of the composer's method of writing. The sometimes splintered tone of the works also adds to the impression of a stimulating, yet imperfect dialogue. The earlier quartets, especially No.3, I can imagine him having spent a little more time on - or at least, having more deeply considered the style in which it was written. The later works seem to flow with less of a concern about the aesthetic, and considering Rihm's mastery of this kind of writing, that isn't neccesserally a bad thing.

[snyprrr]

The pencil-paper analogy is a good way to descibe his late quartets - there is a feeling that the composer is perhaps churning out a bit too fast, and yet it's quality music, but with a raw edge because of the composer's method of writing. The sometimes splintered tone of the works also adds to the impression of a stimulating, yet imperfect dialogue. The earlier quartets, especially No.3, I can imagine him having spent a little more time on - or at least, having more deeply considered the style in which it was written. The later works seem to flow with less of a concern about the aesthetic, and considering Rihm's mastery of this kind of writing, that isn't neccesserally a bad thing.

He certainly has 'carved' out a niche for himself,... oh, I'm so bad. But yes, there is a feral, rough, imperfect quality that makes it perfect Rihm. Scratchin' fleas!! He's rabid!

[Lethevich]

.[asin]B0062LUEFC[/asin]
Coming next year. Looks exciting.

[petrarch]

.[asin]B0062LUEFC[/asin]
Coming next year. Looks exciting.

Very interesting, but the below release on CPO from 2002 is more comprehensive, assuming the work listing for the new CD on the MDG site is accurate and complete. But I'll probably get it anyway since I wonder how Steffen Schleiermacher compares against Siegfried Mauser, the de facto Rihm pianist.

[asin]B000084T7O[/asin]

[Lethevich]

Oh, silly me. I have and love the CPO disc, but lazily assumed the new one offered something different -_-