Author Topic: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom  (Read 10053 times)

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Offline 7/4

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2014, 05:24:17 PM »
I guess that means Young's modulus (modulus of longitudinal elasticity). I believe I learned it at school but have forgotten the definition completely.

Listening to Young's SQ On Remembering A Naiad (1956) that was composed before Trio for Strings (1958). It is a nice short piece, more like a typical avant-garde composition, not drones.
Is there any box set containing Young's major chamber works?

No. He's not very good at making his music available to be heard. Everything is out of print.

Offline Dax

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 11:52:54 PM »
I performed Death Chant with my students on Thursday.

Only one gamut.

Offline Dax

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2014, 09:10:22 AM »

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2014, 03:32:46 PM »
Is it La Monte Young's autograph? Death Chant I heard on youtube sounded like Buddhist priests' chant. What was the reaction of the students?

Offline 7/4

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2014, 06:26:28 PM »


That's pretty cool. Is that an original manuscript?


Offline Dax

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2014, 02:45:28 AM »
More likely a photocopy - but in the composer's writing. It dates from 1961 and is a bit different from the rest of his work. The short extract on YouTube gives a good idea: it's a good idea to use a cymbal (or whatever) instead of thigh slaps demanded by the composer. I added some bass instruments (brass, keyboards, bass guitar), partly because they were already there. The students were intending to perform Cornelius Cardew's The Great Learning Paragraph 3 (for lots of voices and bass instruments) but not enough singers turned up to the rehearsal so we rehearsed Death Chant instead and performed it the next day for 20 minutes on a landing and stairway of a resonant building.

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2014, 08:49:37 PM »
The entire set of The Well-Tuned Piano was uploaded on youtube recently.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/vzwgJq9vsDM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/vzwgJq9vsDM</a>

I listened to it through (with some breaks) for the first time. Truly a great work! I felt that everything I like of minimal/microtonal music is included in it. I believe it is the recording of the 1981 performance released in 1987.

Offline milk

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2014, 10:59:05 PM »
The entire set of The Well-Tuned Piano was uploaded on youtube recently.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/vzwgJq9vsDM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/vzwgJq9vsDM</a>

I listened to it through (with some breaks) for the first time. Truly a great work! I felt that everything I like of minimal/microtonal music is included in it. I believe it is the recording of the 1981 performance released in 1987.
I found the whole thing available for free download on a podcast called "No Such Program." I assume it's still there. I agree. I love this piece. It's so easy to lose oneself in it. It shimmers and it glows. It's truly mesmerizing. The duration of the one I have is 6:26. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 11:01:01 PM by milk »

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2014, 06:39:28 AM »
I found the whole thing available for free download on a podcast called "No Such Program." I assume it's still there. I agree. I love this piece. It's so easy to lose oneself in it. It shimmers and it glows. It's truly mesmerizing. The duration of the one I have is 6:26.
Thank you, I found it. It is the 1987 performance, originally released on DVD.

Offline milk

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2014, 07:27:52 AM »
Thank you, I found it. It is the 1987 performance, originally released on DVD.
Glad you did. I'm curious about what else Young has done. His stuff is sort of hard to get, isn't it? Anyway, Riley's New Harp of Albion is good too but the Well Tuned piano really hooked me. It's magical.

Offline milk

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2014, 07:40:30 AM »
Has anyone posted this yet? Interesting:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/OoUoxy2FOdw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/OoUoxy2FOdw</a>

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2014, 10:46:51 AM »
Glad you did. I'm curious about what else Young has done. His stuff is sort of hard to get, isn't it? Anyway, Riley's New Harp of Albion is good too but the Well Tuned piano really hooked me. It's magical.
Yes, it is difficult to find his music. The only recording of Young's work I have is Five Small Pieces for String Quartet: On Remembering a Naiad in Arditti Quartet's CD USA. It is an early atonal piece composed in 1956, in the style of European avant garde.
I am looking for good recordings of Four Dreams of China and Trio for Strings. The audio qualities of the ones available on Internet are not so good.

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2014, 05:37:04 PM »
Has anyone posted this yet? Interesting:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/OoUoxy2FOdw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/OoUoxy2FOdw</a>
I read an interview with Young by Doty, in which Young told similar thing about learning history.

Interview with La Monte Young, 1989 by David B. Doty
http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html

It was a very good read. Since it was for 1/1, The Journal of the Just Intonation Network, Young talked in detail about the tunings, particularly for The Well-Tuned Piano. It is interesting to know that, because he was not interested in the interval of major/minor third, any tone close to it was not included in the tuning. Also, unlike Partch, he tuned his piano solely based on otonalities (overtones), excluding any utonalities (undertones). The comparison of their styles is also interesting: Partch mainly used percussive instruments, while Young's focus was sustained notes. One thing I couldn't understand is why composers who use both otonalities and utonalities have to be concerned more with linear/horizontal aspects of music.

DD—Particularly, it would seem, for your style of music, which is vertical rather than horizontal, that would be the case. I think that those people who think in terms of harmonic and subharmonic materials being created more-or-less equal have to be concerned more with linear sorts of musics than vertical ones.
LMY—Yeah, could be. I know there are a lot of people who seem to think that utonalities are important, and are important to them. Could be.
DD—When you listen to Harry Partch's music, you never hear a sustained chord just sitting there, it's always arpeggios and glissandi.

Offline milk

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2014, 06:33:31 PM »
I read an interview with Young by Doty, in which Young told similar thing about learning history.

Interview with La Monte Young, 1989 by David B. Doty
http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html

It was a very good read. Since it was for 1/1, The Journal of the Just Intonation Network, Young talked in detail about the tunings, particularly for The Well-Tuned Piano. It is interesting to know that, because he was not interested in the interval of major/minor third, any tone close to it was not included in the tuning. Also, unlike Partch, he tuned his piano solely based on otonalities (overtones), excluding any utonalities (undertones). The comparison of their styles is also interesting: Partch mainly used percussive instruments, while Young's focus was sustained notes. One thing I couldn't understand is why composers who use both otonalities and utonalities have to be concerned more with linear/horizontal aspects of music.

DD—Particularly, it would seem, for your style of music, which is vertical rather than horizontal, that would be the case. I think that those people who think in terms of harmonic and subharmonic materials being created more-or-less equal have to be concerned more with linear sorts of musics than vertical ones.
LMY—Yeah, could be. I know there are a lot of people who seem to think that utonalities are important, and are important to them. Could be.
DD—When you listen to Harry Partch's music, you never hear a sustained chord just sitting there, it's always arpeggios and glissandi.

The 5% of this that I understand is interesting. The comparison between Partch and Young helps enormously. Funny, though, I realize that when I was playing with those Partch instruments, I might have been actually trying to do something "vertical" with them. One can certainly see how Partch is pretty much linear. I guess this is what astounds me and mystifies me about Young's music. It just sort of hangs there like a slowly moving cloud. You can get lost in the static complexity of it.   

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2014, 09:36:01 PM »
The 5% of this that I understand is interesting. The comparison between Partch and Young helps enormously. Funny, though, I realize that when I was playing with those Partch instruments, I might have been actually trying to do something "vertical" with them. One can certainly see how Partch is pretty much linear. I guess this is what astounds me and mystifies me about Young's music. It just sort of hangs there like a slowly moving cloud. You can get lost in the static complexity of it.   
Young said that sustaining long notes is very important. The "static complexity" is very well put. He said "My music, of course, may, by comparison to some of these elaborate, melodic approaches, seem simple to some people. I don't think it's simple. I really think my music is extremely complex. But it may appear simple to someone. My music offers the possibility, because of the way I present it and perform it, myself and the groups I put together, of being really very in tune."

The tuning of The Well-Tuned Piano is well explained here: http://www.kylegann.com/wtp.html
The principal of the tuning is very simple. Only the tones of frequencies that are multiple of 3 and 7 (divided by powers of 2 in order to fit them into an octave) are used. (3i7j/2k  where i,j,k are 0,1,2,3,...) Not only major/minor third but also major/minor sixth are avoided. (No tones around 300, 400, 800 or 900 cents.)

Offline 7/4

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2014, 03:16:59 AM »
I read an interview with Young by Doty, in which Young told similar thing about learning history.

Interview with La Monte Young, 1989 by David B. Doty
http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/LMYInterview_01.html

It was a very good read. Since it was for 1/1, The Journal of the Just Intonation Network, Young talked in detail about the tunings, particularly for The Well-Tuned Piano. It is interesting to know that, because he was not interested in the interval of major/minor third, any tone close to it was not included in the tuning. Also, unlike Partch, he tuned his piano solely based on otonalities (overtones), excluding any utonalities (undertones). The comparison of their styles is also interesting: Partch mainly used percussive instruments, while Young's focus was sustained notes. One thing I couldn't understand is why composers who use both otonalities and utonalities have to be concerned more with linear/horizontal aspects of music.

DD—Particularly, it would seem, for your style of music, which is vertical rather than horizontal, that would be the case. I think that those people who think in terms of harmonic and subharmonic materials being created more-or-less equal have to be concerned more with linear sorts of musics than vertical ones.
LMY—Yeah, could be. I know there are a lot of people who seem to think that utonalities are important, and are important to them. Could be.
DD—When you listen to Harry Partch's music, you never hear a sustained chord just sitting there, it's always arpeggios and glissandi.


He didn't use any  five limit intervals in the WTP tuning, the 3rds being 5/4 & 6/5. Instead, the WTP tuning is full of seven limit 3rds like 7/6 & 9/7.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 03:21:39 AM by 7/4 »

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2014, 06:39:47 AM »
He didn't use any  five limit intervals in the WTP tuning, the 3rds being 5/4 & 6/5. Instead, the WTP tuning is full of seven limit 3rds like 7/6 & 9/7.
Are 7/6 & 9/7 used in the WTP? They are not in the Gann's table. The closest ones are 147/128 (7*7*3/27) and 1323/1024 (7*7*3*3*3/210). But I cannot tell by ear whether the pitches are used or not.
By the way, I realize that your username might mean the pure minor seventh? I thought it was seven-four time. :)

Offline 7/4

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2014, 07:08:22 AM »
Are 7/6 & 9/7 used in the WTP? They are not in the Gann's table. The closest ones are 147/128 (7*7*3/27) and 1323/1024 (7*7*3*3*3/210). But I cannot tell by ear whether the pitches are used or not.
By the way, I realize that your username might mean the pure minor seventh? I thought it was seven-four time. :)

Lot's of people think that's a time signature!


The WTP tuning is based on the third and seventh harmonics.

7/6 is the distance between the seventh and sixth harmonic. There's six in the WTP tuning.

9/7 is the distance between the ninth and seventh harmonic. There's four in the WTP tuning.


« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 07:10:34 AM by 7/4 »

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2014, 08:32:41 AM »
Lot's of people think that's a time signature!


The WTP tuning is based on the third and seventh harmonics.

7/6 is the distance between the seventh and sixth harmonic. There's six in the WTP tuning.

9/7 is the distance between the ninth and seventh harmonic. There's four in the WTP tuning.
I believe I understood it, Thank you!

Offline torut

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Re: LaMonte Young's Wild Kingdom
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2014, 04:34:36 PM »
An interpretation of La Monte Young's The Tortoise, his Dreams and Journeys by Rhys Chatham.
At SOUFFLE CONTINU, Paris, on February 19th, 2010.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/GQ_26kxP6Do" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/GQ_26kxP6Do</a>

I am not a big fan of Chatham's rock pieces for electric guitars, but I like this performance a lot.