George Crumb (1929-2022)

[Catison]

Black Angels benefits from the best recording possible, and I hear that the newerrr Bridge Series version is sonically spectacular, the one to have. The Kronos are a bit "produced", and claustrophobic, though, that's not really a bad thing.

I heard the Miro Quartet perform that live at UT when the CD came out.  I was one of the lucky few who got a free CD by coming early.  I sat towards the front, right in the middle.  All I can say is that thinking about that performance still brings chills to me.   I held my breath the whole time and my palms were damp with sweat by the end.  It was amazing.  I haven't listened to the piece again since then.  It still holds a powerful image in my mind.

[bhodges]

I heard the Miro Quartet perform that live at UT when the CD came out.  I was one of the lucky few who got a free CD by coming early.  I sat towards the front, right in the middle.  All I can say is that thinking about that performance still brings chills to me.   I held my breath the whole time and my palms were damp with sweat by the end.  It was amazing.  I haven't listened to the piece again since then.  It still holds a powerful image in my mind.

Beautiful snapshot there, Brett.  (I'm a big fan of Black Angels, too.) 

--Bruce

[TheGSMoeller]

This has always been a disc that stays close to my player, it's definitely a recording for certain and specific moods, but I believe it features one of the more interesting compilations of composers and their works on a disc.

I have two other George Crumb discs, both featuring chamber music and songs, I wouldn't call any of the works masterpieces, but I also wouldn't want to ever part with them, Crumb is certainly a one of a kind...it's nice to see he has his own thread 

[lescamil]

What? Crumb certainly has masterpieces! I would call Black Angels and the Makrokosmos cycle 5 of the most significant masterpieces of the 20th century. His music may not be as deep as other "masters" but there is so much more to his music that conventional musical development (which he is not big on, really) that makes his music great. His exploration of timbre and sound in general influenced an entire generations of not only classical composers, but musicians in many genres.

[TheGSMoeller]

What? Crumb certainly has masterpieces! I would call Black Angels and the Makrokosmos cycle 5 of the most significant masterpieces of the 20th century. His music may not be as deep as other "masters" but there is so much more to his music that conventional musical development (which he is not big on, really) that makes his music great. His exploration of timbre and sound in general influenced an entire generations of not only classical composers, but musicians in many genres.

Sorry, I'll clarify...the "masterpiece"  in my post was referring to two other two discs I have of Crumb's other than Black Angels...I've always loved Black Angels, it was definitely one of my first enjoyable experience of truly modern music when I first bought the disc.

In fact, I just posted this video on my Twitter/Facebook page about a week ago...

http://www.youtube.com/v/qgr_w0-0caQ

[some guy]

For Black Angels, this is the one to have, I think:



I had the VoxBox LP with the Concord Quartet, which was pretty good I recall. I didn't like the Kronos at all. They rushed through it as if they were late for their plane or something, or maybe just for dinner.

But the Brodsky. That is something special. Fierce, crisp, every twist and turn played razor sharp and precise without sacrificing any jagged roughness. If that's even possible.

Plus, the Brodsky has the Schubert quartet that Crumb quotes in his piece. And that is my favorite recording of the 14th, too. There, the Brodsky is all sweetness and light, subdued melancholy and passionate Sehnsucht. I could praise the disc more highly, but who would believe me?

Anyway, for someone like myself who was just discovering contemporary music in the early seventies, Crumb was a special composer. Quirky, mysterious, endlessly inventive and ingratiating. Ancient Voices of Children, Makrokosmos III, and Black Angels were my favorites. That was a good time generally. Major record labels had extensive new music offerings, and labels like Wergo and Mainstream were nothing but new music. Plus the smaller labels like Turnabout and Everest had some pretty sweet choices. A lot of the first electronic music I had was on Turnabout. And remember those magical Time and Mainstream LPs that Earle Brown put out? Good times! (And God bless Wergo, while I'm at it, here.)

[TheGSMoeller]

For Black Angels, this is the one to have, I think:



I had the VoxBox LP with the Concord Quartet, which was pretty good I recall. I didn't like the Kronos at all. They rushed through it as if they were late for their plane or something, or maybe just for dinner.

But the Brodsky. That is something special. Fierce, crisp, every twist and turn played razor sharp and precise without sacrificing any jagged roughness. If that's even possible.

Plus, the Brodsky has the Schubert quartet that Crumb quotes in his piece. And that is my favorite recording of the 14th, too. There, the Brodsky is all sweetness and light, subdued melancholy and passionate Sehnsucht. I could praise the disc more highly, but who would believe me?

Anyway, for someone like myself who was just discovering contemporary music in the early seventies, Crumb was a special composer. Quirky, mysterious, endlessly inventive and ingratiating. Ancient Voices of Children, Makrokosmos III, and Black Angels were my favorites. That was a good time generally. Major record labels had extensive new music offerings, and labels like Wergo and Mainstream were nothing but new music. Plus the smaller labels like Turnabout and Everest had some pretty sweet choices. A lot of the first electronic music I had was on Turnabout. And remember those magical Time and Mainstream LPs that Earle Brown put out? Good times! (And God bless Wergo, while I'm at it, here.)

Great! Thanks, some guy.

[lescamil]

Sorry, I'll clarify...the "masterpiece"  in my post was referring to two other two discs I have of Crumb's other than Black Angels...I've always loved Black Angels, it was definitely one of my first enjoyable experience of truly modern music when I first bought the disc.

In fact, I just posted this video on my Twitter/Facebook page about a week ago...

http://www.youtube.com/v/qgr_w0-0caQ

Oh, sorry I didn't read that correctly. Thanks for the video link also.

[TheGSMoeller]

Oh, sorry I didn't read that correctly. Thanks for the video link also.

No problem, was glad to share the video. It's fascinating to watch.

[Mirror Image]

I've seen a crumb, but I've never seen a George Crumb.

[lescamil]

I've seen a crumb, but I've never seen a George Crumb.

George is not pleased with that joke.

[DavidW]

Black Angels is a great work, I need to hear other Crumb works in the future.

[Luke]

As a close-up look at Crumb's piano techniques at work, the great Margaret Leng Tan's DVD of Makrokosmos I and II is hard to beat.

[mjwal]

For Black Angels, this is the one to have, I think:...

I had the VoxBox LP with the Concord Quartet, which was pretty good I recall. I didn't like the Kronos at all. They rushed through it as if they were late for their plane or something, or maybe just for dinner.

But the Brodsky. That is something special. Fierce, crisp, every twist and turn played razor sharp and precise without sacrificing any jagged roughness. If that's even possible.

Plus, the Brodsky has the Schubert quartet that Crumb quotes in his piece. And that is my favorite recording of the 14th, too. There, the Brodsky is all sweetness and light, subdued melancholy and passionate Sehnsucht. I could praise the disc more highly, but who would believe me?

Anyway, for someone like myself who was just discovering contemporary music in the early seventies, Crumb was a special composer. Quirky, mysterious, endlessly inventive and ingratiating. Ancient Voices of Children, Makrokosmos III, and Black Angels were my favorites. That was a good time generally. Major record labels had extensive new music offerings, and labels like Wergo and Mainstream were nothing but new music. Plus the smaller labels like Turnabout and Everest had some pretty sweet choices. A lot of the first electronic music I had was on Turnabout. And remember those magical Time and Mainstream LPs that Earle Brown put out? Good times! (And God bless Wergo, while I'm at it, here.)

Great post - you've really sold me that Brodsky disc. I remember those early to mid-70s, discovering Ancient Voices on a badly pressed Nonesuch LP, the Vox/Turnabout recordings of modern music, my first Black Angels by the Gaudeamus Quartet on a Philips LP, all of these in cut-out bins or as cheap imports (to Germany). Here's a discography of that quartet:
http://www.georgecrumb.net/comp/black.html
I have the Kronos recording, but have never rated it so high - the Shostakovich is almost bland to my ears.
I have mildly enjoyed recent releases by Bridge of Crumb's music, like Star Child and the settings of traditional songs, but the buzz has gone for me - I think that over the years I got most out of his earlier vocal music like Songs, Drones, and Refrains of Death and Apparition .

[lescamil]

Star Child requires four conductors because there are 4 separately conducted sections in 4 different tempi. There is one main conductor and 3 subordinate conductors, according to the score. In my opinion, Star Child is a nice work, but not one of Crumb's best. I would put this work in the category of music that is more trouble than it is worth. It got performed recently at a Total Immersion festival in England, but I won't expect to see it programmed much further in the future. Not only does it require four conductors, but it requires quadruple woodwinds, 6 horns, 7 trumpets, 8 percussionists, organ, solo soprano and trombone (both only needed for one movement!), two children's choirs, speaking men's choir, a huge string section, et cetera. Absolutely ridiculous demands for a work that is good at best, not great. Crumb is best with his chamber works, and I think he realizes that, having only a few works for orchestra.

[snyprrr]

For Black Angels, this is the one to have, I think:



I had the VoxBox LP with the Concord Quartet, which was pretty good I recall. I didn't like the Kronos at all. They rushed through it as if they were late for their plane or something, or maybe just for dinner.

But the Brodsky. That is something special. Fierce, crisp, every twist and turn played razor sharp and precise without sacrificing any jagged roughness. If that's even possible.

Plus, the Brodsky has the Schubert quartet that Crumb quotes in his piece. And that is my favorite recording of the 14th, too. There, the Brodsky is all sweetness and light, subdued melancholy and passionate Sehnsucht. I could praise the disc more highly, but who would believe me?

Anyway, for someone like myself who was just discovering contemporary music in the early seventies, Crumb was a special composer. Quirky, mysterious, endlessly inventive and ingratiating. Ancient Voices of Children, Makrokosmos III, and Black Angels were my favorites. That was a good time generally. Major record labels had extensive new music offerings, and labels like Wergo and Mainstream were nothing but new music. Plus the smaller labels like Turnabout and Everest had some pretty sweet choices. A lot of the first electronic music I had was on Turnabout. And remember those magical Time and Mainstream LPs that Earle Brown put out? Good times! (And God bless Wergo, while I'm at it, here.)

Have you heard the Miro on Bridge? You've hooked me fantasizing about that Teldec sound! I just checked the 'Black Angels' discography, and the only other dark horse might be the Cikada Quartet on... uh? uh?...Cala!! And the New York Quartet (with Paul Zukovsky) on LP really rip through Charles Jones's SQ No.6 (on CRI cd... great great piece), so, I'm wondering how that performance may be?

[snyprrr]

For Black Angels, this is the one to have, I think:



I had the VoxBox LP with the Concord Quartet, which was pretty good I recall. I didn't like the Kronos at all. They rushed through it as if they were late for their plane or something, or maybe just for dinner.

But the Brodsky. That is something special. Fierce, crisp, every twist and turn played razor sharp and precise without sacrificing any jagged roughness. If that's even possible.

I've just listened to the Brodsky's twice, and yes, this performance, and recording, are a revelation. I just listened to the Concord a few days ago, and remembered your Post,... anyhow, this presentation of the music is absolutely thrilling! Truly, the scary bits are actually scary! And the way the... pffft, everything's just right perfectly balanced and in your face beautiful,... I call this the 'Arditti' performance to be sure!

It also brings home the helicopter sounds from Vietnam, making it the 'First' Helicopter Quartet (James!), and, after hearing this performance, I do think I like this a lot better than... well,let's just move on,... these helicopter sounds are really really creepy when played so...mm, Gloria Coates-ish (with a little Xenakis/Hiller... more Hiller).

It's so refreshing to be able to hear every track separately (which I haven't done yet). but I have yet to really indulge. I also must say that now I am at peace with Crumb's vocalizing, as this recording catches the male voices very well,... maybe I've finally gotten used to one of the greatest avant cliches of all time, the "eine,... zwei,...dreiiiiii...", anyhow, it works here.

I really trusted you on this recording, and it certainly elevated this piece to its rightful place as perhaps the most imaginative use of the String Quartet to date,... I mean, come on, it IS a little more variegated than Herr Herren's, no? And when players play this piece for all it's worth, like here, it really comes across as a Symphonic Chamber Opera... perhaps the ample headroom of the recording has something to do with this, for the recording is very much natural (as opposed to the Kronos's airless Skywalker Ranch (presumably?) recording), like the Vox recording, but, unlike THAT one, we're NOT sitting in the back row!!

I'm left with the image of the flying monkeys departing the witch's castle under dark grey skies.


btw- try the Petersen(sic?) Quartet on Capriccio for what some say is the last word in the Schubert. Very fast!!


But, I really can't say enough for the Brodsky's 'Black Angels'. It probably should have been nominated for a Grammy.

[TheGSMoeller]

I've just listened to the Brodsky's twice, and yes, this performance, and recording, are a revelation. I just listened to the Concord a few days ago, and remembered your Post,... anyhow, this presentation of the music is absolutely thrilling! Truly, the scary bits are actually scary! And the way the... pffft, everything's just right perfectly balanced and in your face beautiful,... I call this the 'Arditti' performance to be sure!

It also brings home the helicopter sounds from Vietnam, making it the 'First' Helicopter Quartet (James!), and, after hearing this performance, I do think I like this a lot better than... well,let's just move on,... these helicopter sounds are really really creepy when played so...mm, Gloria Coates-ish (with a little Xenakis/Hiller... more Hiller).

It's so refreshing to be able to hear every track separately (which I haven't done yet). but I have yet to really indulge. I also must say that now I am at peace with Crumb's vocalizing, as this recording catches the male voices very well,... maybe I've finally gotten used to one of the greatest avant cliches of all time, the "eine,... zwei,...dreiiiiii...", anyhow, it works here.

I really trusted you on this recording, and it certainly elevated this piece to its rightful place as perhaps the most imaginative use of the String Quartet to date,... I mean, come on, it IS a little more variegated than Herr Herren's, no? And when players play this piece for all it's worth, like here, it really comes across as a Symphonic Chamber Opera... perhaps the ample headroom of the recording has something to do with this, for the recording is very much natural (as opposed to the Kronos's airless Skywalker Ranch (presumably?) recording), like the Vox recording, but, unlike THAT one, we're NOT sitting in the back row!!

I'm left with the image of the flying monkeys departing the witch's castle under dark grey skies.


btw- try the Petersen(sic?) Quartet on Capriccio for what some say is the last word in the Schubert. Very fast!!


But, I really can't say enough for the Brodsky's 'Black Angels'. It probably should have been nominated for a Grammy.

This is good to hear, I've been eyeing some more Crumb recordings from Bridge but have always kept the Brodsky as a possibility.

[snyprrr]

Finding myself back at square one with Crumb, looking for another cd. Right now, Haunted Landscape seems to be the place to go, if for no other reason than there might be actually more musical sounds than in much of his silence strewn pieces that one has to crank up, then rush to turn down...

There's a ColLegno disc with the 3 main Orchestral Works, including HL, but I just don't think I can handle the dated sounds of the other two pieces. Then, there's choosing between Ancient Voices of Children, Night of the Four Moons, Lux Aeterna,...

Then there's REALLY sorting out the Piano Music. WHO has the best actual 'voice' here? I just can't stand the sound of most musicians' voices, especially in Crumb. Plus, I haven't made my way through them yet, so I don't even remember them (surely 10 seconds will be enough though, haha!! ).

Vox Bal... might also be the ticket? Voice of the Misbegotten?

[petrarch]

Then there's REALLY sorting out the Piano Music. WHO has the best actual 'voice' here? I just can't stand the sound of most musicians' voices, especially in Crumb. Plus, I haven't made my way through them yet, so I don't even remember them (surely 10 seconds will be enough though, haha!! ).

Vox Bal... might also be the ticket? Voice of the Misbegotten?

I have the Makrokosmos set on Mute (on DVD), but to be honest I never explored it deeply, even though I have a feeling it would be worth it. And I got Vox Balenae last year, but haven't spun it yet.