Otto Klemperer (1885-1973)

[revdrdave]

Between the 1954 and 1969 recordings of Bach's Orchestral Suites, I'm leaning towards the 1969. I love the luscious sound of the orchestra, how the brass breaks through the texture and the sober phrases of melodic logic keep the construction going. Aces!

Yes, Leo, agreed.  I know Klemperer's 1969 performance is about as far away from HIP as one can get but, as you say, the sound of the orchestra--especially the brass--is, indeed, luscious.  This reminds me that I need to revisit Klemperer's EMI recording of the B-minor Mass, which I haven't listened to in a long time.  His St. Matthew Passion, by the way, is extraordinary.

[Leo K.]

Yes, Leo, agreed.  I know Klemperer's 1969 performance is about as far away from HIP as one can get but, as you say, the sound of the orchestra--especially the brass--is, indeed, luscious.  This reminds me that I need to revisit Klemperer's EMI recording of the B-minor Mass, which I haven't listened to in a long time.  His St. Matthew Passion, by the way, is extraordinary.

I've been revisiting Klemp's B Minor Mass and St. Matthew Passion the last few weeks. Wow, I agree regarding the Passion, an incredible experience in every way! I also feel that way about the B Minor Mass. I love Klemp's way with Bach. It's total devotion to the music. The tempo, phrasing, details, and cumulative effect is staggering. Klemp is my first choice for these masterworks (and I'm also an HIP fan).

[Leo K.]

I'm been listening to Klemperer's Symphony No.4 (recorded: March 10 1969 with the New Philharmonia Orchestra), a recording found on "Klemperer: Own Compositions, Vol. 2 (Symphonies)" on the Archiphon label. (Vol 2 has four of his symphonies that he recorded.)

It's a fascinating listen. A four movement work with a 13 minute beautiful adagio that is the heart of the work. The faster movements have a lot of personality. One could with say a combination of roughness and quirkiness.

Does anyone know the background of these recordings he did with these four symphonies? They sound like run-throughs in the studio. Perhaps for himself?

He wrote six symphonies so I'm so curious about 5 and 6, and if he ever finished those enough to perform?

I imagine with glee hearing a modern performance of his 4th symphony with the Berlin Philharmonic, imagine!

[Handelian]

George Solti tells a story in his memoirs of calling on Klemperer in his dressing room and finding him lying on a couch with naked torso covered in lipstick. K then started berating Toscanini, saying how disgracefully he behaved with his wife: "what sort of family life must he have, with him over in New York and his wife staying in Europe!" Disgraceful!" This, said Solti, coming from a man who didn't look the picture of domesticity himself! Karajan was most amused that on a Philarmonia tour Klemperer kept showing up intent on pursuing a flame-haired cellist he fancied.
We never heard the best of Klemperer from the recordings he made as an old man when he was sick and infirmed. True, some of them are remarkable but by then his beat had slowed. This doesn't apply to everything and his insights are valuable - his German Requiem is outstanding as is his Mahler Das Liede von das Erde in parts. There is a wonderfully truculent Beethoven 7th from 1955. But things like his Missa Solemnis are spoiled by leaden tempi and inferior soloists. And I will not comment on his anachronistic Bach!

[MickeyBoy]

Let me rephrase a bit. Given the context of German music making, who was teaching, who were mentors to younger conductors, would a German conductor listening to a concert blindfolded know that the conductor was or was not German-schooled? I was told by an Italian conductor, now deceased, that this German style concentrated on little things or smallish detail. I am also wondering if the two main styles we now recognize, the strict and the flexible, had much in common and this commonality could be considered the German style.. Thanks for the comments so far.


Would Klemperer have been classified as a German conductor by his German peers? What is the German style of playing orchestral music, so that a German conductor could say of one of Monteux's performances that it was very nice, but not German? What would make for German performance, in Klemperer's case forward woodwinds and divided violins? Or is it more subtle than that? Any books about that you could recommend? Anecdotes are of course always welcome. TIA.

[Jo498]

Would Klemperer have been classified as a German conductor by his German peers?

Of course, what else? Only hard core nazis would have tried to find a "Jewish" style of conducting... (and then e.g. Mahler, Walter and Klemperer would very probably have had sufficiently different styles that this would be obvious nonsense either)

What is the German style of playing orchestral music, so that a German conductor could say of one of Monteux's performances that it was very nice, but not German? What would make for German performance, in Klemperer's case forward woodwinds and divided violins? Or is it more subtle than that? Any books about that you could recommend? Anecdotes are of course always welcome. TIA.

I don't think there was *one* German style. Germany and Hungaroaustria were dominating classical music around 1900, especially their own tradition. But unlike France or Britain, these countries were not culturally centralized at all, so there were many different styles. Even Vienna was never the only cultural capital (in Mozart's time there was Prague, later Leipzig, Dresden, Berlin, Munich, Weimar etc. as important musical centers.)
There was great Russian music but I don't think that (unlike maybe in piano and violin) there was a distinctive Russian school of conducting around 1900. The only other comparably strong distinctive tradition was French (or maybe even Parisian) and while this was about to change in the early 20th century, it was still very opera-dominated.
Even in Brahms' time there were apparently at least two major approaches, one more flexible with lots of rubato (as maybe later reflected in Pfitzner's and more importantly Furtwängler's recordings) and one fairly straightforward one, followed by Fritz Busch or Richard Strauss. Klemperer does not really fit either although more the latter than the former.
And a lot probably changed with the establishment of recordings. Strauss famously quipped that there were "good notes" and "bad notes" in his music and that when he himself was conducting his music he heard only the good notes but when Toscanini conducted he could hear *all* the notes. Such influences probably led to far more precise and "straight" interpretations, so that by the 1940s Mengelberg or Furtwängler seemed relics of an older style and most of the slightly younger conductors (born around 1900), such as Böhm or Szell were all much closer to Toscanini than to Pfitzner in their style.

With Klemperer one has to keep in mind that on records we mostly know an old man with distinctive personal style that could be very different from how he conducted in the 1910s or 1930s (there are a few documents from the 30s).

[vandermolen]

He conducted my favourite recordings (EMI) of Bruckner's 4th and 6th symphonies and Mahler's Ninth Symphony.
As he was Jewish (by birth) it amused me when he complained that Bruno Walter's Mahler performances were 'too Jewish' for his liking!
I think that they were both great Mahler conductors.

[Jo498]

Klemperer could be a bit strict or even narrowminded, supposedly he rejected Mahler's 5th because of the adagietto he found kitschy.
Walter was very good in the Mahler pieces Klemp spurned, the 1st and 5th, and I'd say Bruno Walter is among the best conductors of the "Klezmer music" in the 1st,iii.
But I think it is preposterous to assume that Walter, born in Berlin with a middle class background had any particular connection to central eastern European Yiddish culture or music. (This was a bit different from Mahler's own background in lower middle class rural Bohemia, but he also wasn't from a Ukrainian shtetl.)

Although I don't know about the details of Walter's background. Klemperer was born in Breslau (Wroclaw today), his parents hailed from Prague and Hamburg respectively. And both converted eventually, for whatever reasons, so this would be another reason to assume that they were not particularly rooted in their heritage. (This was the perverse thing that antisemitism took such a turn in the early 20th century that it did not help Jews under the Nazis when they had converted decades before, sometimes to make a marriage more easily possible or to avoid the more typical late 19th century style of antijudaism that was not so concerned with "blood".)

[vandermolen]

Klemperer could be a bit strict or even narrowminded, supposedly he rejected Mahler's 5th because of the adagietto he found kitschy.
Walter was very good in the Mahler pieces Klemp spurned, the 1st and 5th, and I'd say Bruno Walter is among the best conductors of the "Klezmer music" in the 1st,iii.
But I think it is preposterous to assume that Walter, born in Berlin with a middle class background had any particular connection to central eastern European Yiddish culture or music. (This was a bit different from Mahler's own background in lower middle class rural Bohemia, but he also wasn't from a Ukrainian shtetl.)

Although I don't know about the details of Walter's background. Klemperer was born in Breslau (Wroclaw today), his parents hailed from Prague and Hamburg respectively. And both converted eventually, for whatever reasons, so this would be another reason to assume that they were not particularly rooted in their heritage. (This was the perverse thing that antisemitism took such a turn in the early 20th century that it did not help Jews under the Nazis when they had converted decades before, sometimes to make a marriage more easily possible or to avoid the more typical late 19th century style of antijudaism that was not so concerned with "blood".)

Very interesting. I knew a bit of this but good to hear your views. Walter's Mahler Symphony No.5 is probably my favourite version as is Klemperer's No.9.