Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!

[SonicMan46]

Yes, there's lots of information there. When I originally scanned the photo from the back of the album, I tried to include more of the description but the forum software wouldn't allow me to post it because the file was too big. I had to go back and crop and shrink the photo so it would go through. If you know of any way around this, I'd be happy to post an image of the album liner notes. With my limited typing skills, it would probably take me forever to rewrite them manually.

Tony - if you have that entire back cover of the LP scanned into a large image (not sure the size but likely large), I can PM you my Yahoo e-mail address and you can send it to me (and/or Gurn) - I'm sure that I could produce an acceptable 'smaller' format or a text file that could be uploaded for those interested (including myself) - I'm about to do a MP3 download of that CD - thanks!  Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I'll be dogged! I had that disk all along and didn't even know it!  The Vox version (with just 3 concerti) has never been available to me, but it seems that Brilliant bought the rights and put it in the Big Box!! It would have been cool if the packaging was a little more informative that way. 

And in my humble defense from Antoine's unrelenting attack, ( )  I will paste in here a screenshot from the PDF "liner notes" to the Big Box:



I read that as soon as I got the box, and never explored the disk to find that the writer was totally in error. I wonder if they originally intended to have a different version before they found these.




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Now playing:
Susanne Heinrich - Abel WKO 187 Piece for Solo Viola da Gamba - Adagio

[Szykneij]

Tony - if you have that entire back cover of the LP scanned into a large image (not sure the size but likely large), I can PM you my Yahoo e-mail address and you can send it to me (and/or Gurn) - I'm sure that I could produce an acceptable 'smaller' format or a text file that could be uploaded for those interested (including myself) - I'm about to do a MP3 download of that CD - thanks!  Dave 

Great  -- I'll scan it tomorrow. -- T.

[SonicMan46]

Tony - if you have that entire back cover of the LP scanned into a large image (not sure the size but likely large), I can PM you my Yahoo e-mail address and you can send it to me (and/or Gurn) - I'm sure that I could produce an acceptable 'smaller' format or a text file that could be uploaded for those interested (including myself) - I'm about to do a MP3 download of that CD - thanks!  Dave 

Well, in this thread Tony posted an album (LP vs. CD?) below left of Haydn works played on a kind of string-like 'hurdy-gurdy' of Haydn's time (couple of added pics below) - well I had one other CD featuring this instrument and was curious; however, a CD was just not available (probably OOP) - but tonight I downloaded the MP3 recording from Amazon (about $9) - transferred to my iPod and then burned to a CD-R - just takes minutes once you've done the process a few times - technology can be wonderful (or a PITA!) - 

Well, at the moment, I'm listening to the CD-R on my den stereo system and the experience is wonderful - really! This instrument is called a lira organizzata - BOY, I'd love to attend a live performance just to see how it is played; but the sound of the instrument is unique and blends quite well w/ the strings - just a superb acquisition for little cost - recommended to Haydn fans & to the music composed for instruments now considered obsolete - 

   

[SonicMan46]

Haydn - Lira Concerti LP album notes - thanks to Tony - he sent me 2 TIFF files, which were large but allowed me to zoom and then using the 'snipping tool' of VISTA do 5 'screen captures' - I've uploaded then to my photo sharing site and the links are provided below - the files were of sufficient size that the 500 KB limit on attachments would have necessitated 3 posts; the order of reading these will be explained below w/ each link.  NOTE - that the LP contains 3 of the 5 concerti; all are present on the MP3 download discussed previously and also in the BIG Haydn box (probably w/o notes?).

LiraNotes -1 - start here!

LiraNotes - 2 - continues from above.

LiraNotes - 3 - title & performers.

LiraNotes - 4 - start w/ left column; then go to notes #5.

LiraNotes - 5 - need to go between 4 & 5.

Let me know if these come up for you - P.S. there is a little overlap in the # 4/5 notes - enjoy - Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for these, Tony & Dave. Dave, that post of mine a couple op from here, if you click on it will get big enough to read. That is the sum total of the liner notes, and as you see, it even says that the version on there is NOT the lira version!     So this is good!



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Now playing:
Costantino Mastroprimiano - Clementi Op 25 #1 Sonata in C 1st mvmt - Allegro di molto

[Szykneij]

Nice job, Dave. Thanks for doing that. Those turnabout VOX recordings sure aimed at giving you your money's worth, both in background information and in total music. At the same time I got the Haydn Lira recording, I got Haydn - Four Flute Quartets, Op. 5 (total play time: 57 mins.) and Soler - 6 Concerti for 2 Keyboard Instruments (total play time: 65 mins). That's a lot of music for single album vinyl issues!

[Gurn Blanston]

Is the instrument that Ruf uses an authentic lira organizzati, or a small organ?  I was expecting to hear a sound from strings as well as pipes.

It is a lira organizzata. The string(s) are played sympathetically, I believe from that turning wheel, so the sound isn't readily recognizable as strings in any way that I am familiar with. I can personally only hear it from time to time. Since you have a couple of fiddles, 2 violas, and cello and a viola d'gamba all in there as well as a pair of horns, it is difficult, at least for me, to pick out and identify each individual sound...    I'll get better though.



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Now playing:
Costantino Mastroprimiano - Clementi Op 25 #2 Sonata in G 1st mvmt - Allegro con brio

[SonicMan46]

Is the instrument that Ruf uses an authentic lira organizzati, or a small organ?  I was expecting to hear a sound from strings as well as pipes.

Hi Leon - I'm not sure that 'authentic' is applicable for the variety of this type of instrument and the variations that existed in the late 18th century when these works were composed.  Take a look a this Brief Explanation of the instrument that might 'fit' the ones used in this recording; from my understanding these are not original but re-built instruments based on extant examples in museums.

The 'hurdy-gurdy' was based on a bowing wheel that would apply pressure to the strings depending on the key(s) depressed - like an automatic violin player w/ keys for the left hand; the addition of wind pipes further made the instrument more complex - I suspect that the modern reproductions of these instruments were a combination of these two mechanisms as described in the link?

However, without more specifics about this recording and the instruments used or being actually present at the recordings, I have difficulty in really answering your question - i.e. I'm w/ Gurn - the pipes are easily appreciated in this recording but the strings likely just blend in w/ the other instruments (BUT, Haydn likely would have easily known this and accomplished his mission successfully).

But, the bottom line for you after downloading this recording from Amazon - do you like it?  Dave 

[Szykneij]

I have more information on the pedal harpsichord discussed in detail earlier in this thread. I had a nagging feeling I overlooked something during my last visit to the Goodwill store, so I went back this morning and found:

the forgotten
PEDAL HARPSICHORD
only recording of the Bach instrument
Bruce Prince-Joseph
Cook laboratories - 11312

This is a 1953 recording coupled with A Baedeker for Concert Choir by the Hufstader Singers on the "B" side. Unfortunately, I can't find an illustration of the cover and the white reverse print on orangey-brown won't scan well.

It's not a very good recording. Although the vinyl is pristine, the recording quality leaves much to be desired and the clunking of the harpsichord pedals can be quite distracting. Still, an interesting listening experience. I wonder if the claim of "only recording of the Bach instrument" still holds after 58 years.

[Szykneij]

The pedal harpsichord photo is inscribed "the only Pedal Harpsichord in the Western Hemisphere".

[stingo]

My apologies if this has been posted before.

[asin]B000MGBTBQ[/asin]

Mozart am Stein vis-a-vis

I'll not attempt to describe the instrument in such august company, only to say that it's a combination harpsichord and fortepiano. A selection of Mozart's music for 4 hands gets some rousing interpretations by two of my favorite musicians - Andreas Staier and Christine Schornsheim.

Here's a sample:
http://www.youtube.com/v/HuCRTiJoD8Q

[SonicMan46]

Thanks Guys for the additional posts - amazing statement about the pedal harpsichord from the old LP - I probably now own at least a half dozen recordings w/ that instrument (modern reproductions) - a comeback! 

Keyed Trumpet - Haydn & Hummel 'Trumpet Concertos' - my only recording of works played on this 'short-lived' transitional trumpet that flourished briefly in the late 18th & early 19th centuries until replaced by the 'valved trumpet.'  The Viennese court trumpeter, Anton Weidinger, is considered the impetus (possibly inventor?) behind development of the keyed trumpet which permitted playing the chromatic scale over several octaves (according to the liner notes).

In 1796, Haydn wrote his Trumpet Concerto for Weidinger; and around 1803, Hummel composed his concerto for the same performer.  By 1815, Weidinger was at the height of his success and his instrument was apparently quite popular w/ numerous other works composed and concerts given highlighting the trumpet.  During the 1820s (and by the early 1840s), the keyed trumpet had been replaced by the valved instrument.

Concerning the recording, Reinhold Friedrich is just excellent and the trumpet is played beautifully w/ a sound that hearkens back to the days of the 'valveless' instrument - not sure 'how many' other recordings exist w/ this older instrument, but I'll do some searching.  A little more information can be found in this Wiki Article HERE - 

P.S. Picture of an older Friedrich w/ another style trumpet, added below, right - 

 

[Antoine Marchand]

Thanks Guys for the additional posts - amazing statement about the pedal harpsichord from the old LP - I probably now own at least a half dozen recordings w/ that instrument (modern reproductions) - a comeback! 

... maybe you are considering Watchorn's WTC like five recordings, Dave? If not, I would appreciate some additional recommendations. I just have that Watchorn's Bach and some disc by Isolde Ahlgrimm (also Bach). 

[SonicMan46]

... maybe you are considering Watchorn's WTC like five recordings, Dave? If not, I would appreciate some additional recommendations. I just have that Watchorn's Bach and some disc by Isolde Ahlgrimm (also Bach). 

Antoine - you're right, I was counting discs as recordings, but thought that I had several other pedal harpsichord recordings (may be another w/ Watchorn or Farr) - all I could find are many lute harpsichord CDs, so I guess that I was overly exciting about a comeback! 

So, if you or others come up w/ some 'new' pedal harpsichord works, please post - the only other item that 'pops up' on Amazon USA using 'pedal harpsichord' (i.e. besides Watchorn) is the one below - Dave 

[Antoine Marchand]

Antoine - you're right, I was counting discs as recordings, but thought that I had several other pedal harpsichord recordings (may be another w/ Watchorn or Farr) - all I could find are many lute harpsichord CDs, so I guess that I was overly exciting about a comeback! 

So, if you or others come up w/ some 'new' pedal harpsichord works, please post - the only item that 'pops up' on Amazon USA using 'pedal harpsichord' is the one below - Dave 

Yes, recordings on pedal-harpsichord, pedal-clavichord and pedal-piano are thin on the ground.

Anyway, this link provides information about some old recordings on pedal harpsichord (samples included): http://www.baroquecds.com/759Web.html

Additionally, considering your recent survey by the trio sonatas, this Power Biggs' disc played on pedal-harsichord is a classic:



Very cheap on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Trio-Sonatas-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B0000062DK

[Antoine Marchand]

I forgot this excellent CD, recommended by Q some time ago:

[SonicMan46]

Yes, recordings on pedal-harpsichord, pedal-clavichord and pedal-piano are thin on the ground.

Anyway, this link provides information about some old recordings on pedal harpsichord (samples included): http://www.baroquecds.com/759Web.html

Additionally, considering your recent survey by the trio sonatas, this Power Biggs' disc played on pedal-harsichord is a classic:

Antoine - thanks for the recommendation above - just placed into my Amazon basket!  Dave 

[milk]

I don't know if this made it into this forum yet. I'm enjoying this recording.

[Szykneij]

I dropped in on a wine tasting last night and there was a violin, viola da gamba, and lute trio playing. While the idea was commendable, it wasn't very well thought out. The acoustics in the beautiful old hall were so bad and the visitors so loud, you could barely hear the music even when standing next to the players. Clearly, venues in an earlier day had to have been much smaller and quieter.