Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!

Started by SonicMan46, March 14, 2009, 02:29:05 PM

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SonicMan46

Quote from: milk on June 11, 2011, 06:16:30 PM


I don't know if this made it into this forum yet. I'm enjoying this recording.

Hi Milk - actually I downloaded that recording (not sure 'where' the recommendation came from?) and is now on iPod - listened to it the other day - need to play the recording on my den speakers just to pick out those pedal notes! Dave :)

SonicMan46

Quote from: Szykneij on November 12, 2011, 05:54:57 AM
I dropped in on a wine tasting last night and there was a violin, viola da gamba, and lute trio playing. While the idea was commendable, it wasn't very well thought out. The acoustics in the beautiful old hall were so bad and the visitors so loud, you could barely hear the music even when standing next to the players. Clearly, venues in an earlier day had to have been much smaller and quieter.

Hey Tony - hope the wine was good, too! :)

That trio would certainly be a nice combination in a different atmosphere - sounds like a Sackbut Ensemble may have provided a greater impact!   ;D   Dave


Szykneij

Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 12, 2011, 07:01:21 AM
That trio would certainly be a nice combination in a different atmosphere - sounds like a Sackbut Ensemble may have provided a greater impact!   ;D   Dave

:)  Absolutely.  And this would have been the perfect accompaniment --

Men profess to be lovers of music, but for the most part they give no evidence in their opinions and lives that they have heard it.  ~ Henry David Thoreau

Don't pray when it rains if you don't pray when the sun shines. ~ Satchel Paige

milk

Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 12, 2011, 06:56:16 AM
Hi Milk - actually I downloaded that recording (not sure 'where' the recommendation came from?) and is now on iPod - listened to it the other day - need to play the recording on my den speakers just to pick out those pedal notes! Dave :)

Seems like it's the only recording of its kind.

SonicMan46

Just obtain the recording below - Johann Quantz (1697-1773) Flute Sonatas w/ Mary Oleskiewicz on a period reproduction flute; the original was made by Quantz himself for his boss, Frederick the Great, and is now in the Dayton C. Miller Flute Collection in the Library of Congress - picture of the original instrument below and described of the website HERE as:  Johann Joachim Quantz / Flute in C - full view of Frederick the Great's flute with extra joints on each side.

Olesiewicz has an impressive curriculum vitae (her website HERE) - she received a Ph.D. in musicology from Duke University in 1998; her 700+ page dissertation is entitled: Quantz and the Flute at Dresden: His Instruments, His Repertory, and Their Significance for the Versuch and the Bach Circle, which can be ordered, for those interested!  At present, she is an Associate Professor of Music, University of Massachusetts in Boston - don't know if Karl visits this thread but would suspect that he knows her?  :)
 

 

Bogey

Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 05, 2012, 07:51:42 AM
Just obtain the recording below - Johann Quantz (1697-1773) Flute Sonatas w/ Mary Oleskiewicz on a period reproduction flute; the original was made by Quantz himself for his boss, Frederick the Great, and is now in the Dayton C. Miller Flute Collection in the Library of Congress - picture of the original instrument below and described of the website HERE as:  Johann Joachim Quantz / Flute in C - full view of Frederick the Great's flute with extra joints on each side.

Olesiewicz has an impressive curriculum vitae (her website HERE) - she received a Ph.D. in musicology from Duke University in 1998; her 700+ page dissertation is entitled: Quantz and the Flute at Dresden: His Instruments, His Repertory, and Their Significance for the Versuch and the Bach Circle, which can be ordered, for those interested!  At present, she is an Associate Professor of Music, University of Massachusetts in Boston - don't know if Karl visits this thread but would suspect that he knows her?  :)
 

 

Added the recording to my wish list, Dave.  Reminds me of this adventure:

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on February 05, 2012, 07:55:20 AM
Added the recording to my wish list, Dave.  Reminds me of this adventure:



Hi Bill - yes, that Quantz disc is special w/ the history of the flute (i.e. reproduction) used.

The Crystal Flute, another fascinating story - made a reference myself on the first page of this thread (and after looking back, the original posts were on the old forum, so has been a while) - wonder if anyone picked up this CD?

Bogey

On two side notes:

1. Have you noticed that many of the discs that you have posted are "import" discs.  Just something I noticed.

2. Did you ever purchase Vols. 1 and 3 of the Attilio ariosti efforts?
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

#148
Quote from: Bogey on February 05, 2012, 08:29:13 AM
On two side notes:

1. Have you noticed that many of the discs that you have posted are "import" discs.  Just something I noticed.

2. Did you ever purchase Vols. 1 and 3 of the Attilio ariosti efforts?

In regards to the first question, undoubtedly!  I guess that for the music I like, an interest in historic performances, and a preference for 'modern' recordings (e.g. I have almost nothing pre-1960-70), I have gravitated more to the European labels; some of my favorites being Hyperion, CPO, MDG, Accent, Tactus, and certainly others.  I've purchased a LOT of discs through BRO and will often search those labels specifically, so the desire for a bargain plays a role - e.g. right now there are 2 Accent discs, each $8, w/ the group Il Gardellino - check HERE, if interested; bought both myself there.

Concerning Attilio Ariosti, I still just have the Vol. 2 disc shown below - I was aware of the others but the BIS prices on the Amazon MP are a little steep for me once that $3 S/H fee is added; need to check 'across the pond' - the composer kind of escape my attention after that initial posting probably a couple of years ago; however, I'd be curious - I do enjoy that one disc!  :)  Dave

Addendum: Bill, all 3 Ariosti volumes are available from MDT HERE w/ special offer at $12 each (shipping is not too bad if you put in an order for a half dozen or so items) - I was actually looking for the Buxtehude harpsichord box on Brilliant which is not going to be release on Amazon USA until the end of the month - available there now for just $13; so I may just go ahead and get those other 2 volumes - great review of all three volumes on MusicWeb - thanks for the reminder!  :D


Bogey

Thanks, Dave.  I have started to limit myself to one cd per week purchase (at least for a while).  I have enough music that I rarely get to as it is, so I am going to be a bit more picky.  However, I like the looks of many on this thread, so possibly I will pick these up at a gradual rate unless a bargain hits.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Bogey

Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 17, 2009, 05:25:50 PM
A new arrival for me in the mail today!  Appropriate for this thread on 'older' musical instruments:

Vivaldi, Antonio (1678-1741) - Cello Sonatas w/ the great Anner Bylsma on a Baroque cello (Matteo Goffriller, 1693); the other performers are on violin, cello, harpsichord/organ, and archlute (Ivano Zanenghi); the latter is the 'old' instrument of interest (scanned in a second pic from the booklet to show this unusual multi-string instrument, far left - not much in the notes -  :-\).

Fabulous recording and this music does sound 'old' (and wonderful) on these deep melodious instruments - so, any comments from 'experts' out there on Baroque cellos (shapes, types of strings, bows, & playing techniques) & on this interesting looking lute variant?  Thanks all -  :)







As you may have seen in the purchase thread Dave, my wife gave me this disc on Valentines Day.  I was surprised by the two cellos playing together.  Does this happen very often?  However, more to the thread:  What caught my eye was also the Archlute.  Cool instrument there.  Does it have a double fret boad?  Either way, it sounds wonderful and seems too to come from the 17 century via Germany.  (Was this the original instrument of choice in Vivaldi's score?....I have not scoured the nootes yet.)  A very warm sounding cd with those cellos taking the lead, but that lute comes forward ever now and then to give us that "Vivaldi sound". :D
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on February 15, 2012, 07:02:19 PM

As you may have seen in the purchase thread Dave, my wife gave me this disc on Valentines Day.  I was surprised by the two cellos playing together.  Does this happen very often?  However, more to the thread:  What caught my eye was also the Archlute.  Cool instrument there.  Does it have a double fret boad?  Either way, it sounds wonderful and seems too to come from the 17 century via Germany.  (Was this the original instrument of choice in Vivaldi's score?....I have not scoured the nootes yet.)  A very warm sounding cd with those cellos taking the lead, but that lute comes forward ever now and then to give us that "Vivaldi sound". :D

Hi Bill - well, as you know in 'chamber works', Boccherini was the champ in using 2 cellos in his quintets; Vivaldi of course predominately used the violin(s); I was just reviewing the latter's RV catalog HERE; of the nearly 600 compositions listed, the first 80+ are 'sonatas' - w/i that group only the ones below include the cello in their title - the 6 works included on the Bylsma disc are w/i that listing; now whether Vivaldi indicated the use of 2 cellos in these works, I'm not sure, but obviously this was a very minimal part of his output.

RV 38   Sonate, en ré mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue
RV 39   Sonate, en mi bémol majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue      
RV 40   Sonate, en mi mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 41   Sonate, en fa majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 42   Sonate, en sol mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 43   Sonate, en la mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 44   Sonate, en la mineur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 45   Sonate, en si bémol majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 46   Sonate, en si bémol majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue   
RV 47   Sonate, en si bémol majeur, pour violoncelle et basse continue


Concerning the archlute, if you look at the larger picture in the booklet (i.e. the 2nd one that I posted but in a smaller version), the instrument is 'typical' of many of these early & transitional string ones of the times.  There are two pegboards, one is fretted and the other is not; there appears to be about a dozen strings (which are doubled looking at the number of pegs present); the upper set of strings are not fretted and would provide the lower base notes.  The archlute used in this recording was made by Stephen Murphy after a mid-17th century German instrument - Murphy's website is HERE if you want to see a variety of beautiful instruments of many types; I could not find much in the booklet about the archlute used, so my comments are based on just looking at the picture mentioned.  Hope this helps - Dave :)

Gurn Blanston

Just a quick second to stick my nose in, Dave & Bill; in that listing, all the sonatas marked 'Cello & BC' can very easily be sonatas for 2 cellos. You have a big handful of instruments to choose from on the BC part, cello being 1 of them (very commonly).  :)

Back to work....

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Bogey

Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 05, 2012, 07:51:42 AM
Just obtain the recording below - Johann Quantz (1697-1773) Flute Sonatas w/ Mary Oleskiewicz on a period reproduction flute; the original was made by Quantz himself for his boss, Frederick the Great, and is now in the Dayton C. Miller Flute Collection in the Library of Congress - picture of the original instrument below and described of the website HERE as:  Johann Joachim Quantz / Flute in C - full view of Frederick the Great's flute with extra joints on each side.

Olesiewicz has an impressive curriculum vitae (her website HERE) - she received a Ph.D. in musicology from Duke University in 1998; her 700+ page dissertation is entitled: Quantz and the Flute at Dresden: His Instruments, His Repertory, and Their Significance for the Versuch and the Bach Circle, which can be ordered, for those interested!  At present, she is an Associate Professor of Music, University of Massachusetts in Boston - don't know if Karl visits this thread but would suspect that he knows her?  :)
 

 

Just ordered.  Enjoyed the samples.  My copy looks a bit different, but has to be the same recording:



It may turn out that down the road it would be nice to follow this one up with:

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on February 17, 2012, 07:29:32 PM
Just ordered.  Enjoyed the samples.  My copy looks a bit different, but has to be the same recording:

 

Hey Bill - hope that my previous post on the Vivaldi & the archlute were helpful?

Concerning the Quantz flute works, the guy wrote SO MUCH for that instrument that recordings are confusing, i.e. the CD that you ordered are some 'Flute Quartets' (in fact, on my wish list) - I have some 'Flute Sonatas', so two different discs; now, the Naxos disc you picture above are also 'Flute Sonatas' by the same performers, but I just compared the track listings and the opus numbers are completely different!  I really like her on the period reproduction - thus, will add that to my Quantz list!

BTW - received and am now listening to Vol. I & III of the Attilio Ariosti Stockholm Sonatas - as wonderful as that middle disc I discussed a while back; so if you like instruments, such as the viola d'amore, theorbo, archlute, baroque guitar, & viola da gamba, then all 3 of these recordings are highly recommended!  Dave :)

Bogey

Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 18, 2012, 06:00:05 AM
Hey Bill - hope that my previous post on the Vivaldi & the archlute were helpful?

Concerning the Quantz flute works, the guy wrote SO MUCH for that instrument that recordings are confusing, i.e. the CD that you ordered are some 'Flute Quartets' (in fact, on my wish list) - I have some 'Flute Sonatas', so two different discs; now, the Naxos disc you picture above are also 'Flute Sonatas' by the same performers, but I just compared the track listings and the opus numbers are completely different!  I really like her on the period reproduction - thus, will add that to my Quantz list!

BTW - received and am now listening to Vol. I & III of the Attilio Ariosti Stockholm Sonatas - as wonderful as that middle disc I discussed a while back; so if you like instruments, such as the viola d'amore, theorbo, archlute, baroque guitar, & viola da gamba, then all 3 of these recordings are highly recommended!  Dave :)

Good to know they are different, Dave.  Based on the samples, I, like yourself, can easily see owning all three at some point.  Flute in small ensembles has become a favorite of mine over the last few years and these seem like ones to have on the shelf.  I was just going to ask about the Attilio Ariosti discs and if they arrived yet.  Great to hear that they hold par with Vol. 2.  I will probably snag them next month from MDT if they are still on sale.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on February 18, 2012, 11:55:51 AM
Good to know they are different, Dave.  Based on the samples, I, like yourself, can easily see owning all three at some point.  Flute in small ensembles has become a favorite of mine over the last few years and these seem like ones to have on the shelf.  I was just going to ask about the Attilio Ariosti discs and if they arrived yet.  Great to hear that they hold par with Vol. 2.  I will probably snag them next month from MDT if they are still on sale.

Bill - listened to the Ariosti 'new' discs this morning - pretty much the same excellence of my Vol. 2 - a nice set of works; all are quite similar, so if you like one the others will be just as enjoyable!  Dave :)

SonicMan46

Well, Bill and I seem to be carrying the conversation on the Attilio Ariosti Stockholm Sonatas - I've now acquired all 3 CDs of these works which are just wonderful performances, especially regarding the instruments used - a more detailed post HERE (post #105), which I left recently!

But in this thread, just wanted to show and expand on the Viola d'Amore instruments used by Thomas Georgi in these performances; BOY, I love this early 18th century adventure into the evolution of these instruments! 

Below is an image from the booklet of the first volume; these seem to be original instruments (not sure of the restorations?):

Top:  Thomas Eberle, Naples 1772, seven playing strings, seven sympathetic strings.
Middle: Labelled Mathias Thir, Vienna 1721, six playing strings.
Bottom: Thomas Eberle, Naples 1783, six playing strings, six sympathetic strings.

You know, our modern period of FIX string instruments seems rather uninteresting compared to this past era of string evolution - just a thought - : )


Szykneij

Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 19, 2012, 08:08:00 PM
Below is an image from the booklet of the first volume; these seem to be original instruments (not sure of the restorations?):

Beautiful instruments! The middle one appears to have a more modern tailpiece, and of course the fine-tuners have been added. The bridges all seem new, and the tailpiece guts have all probably been replaced. Other than that, I'm sure they're as they were back in the 18th century.
Men profess to be lovers of music, but for the most part they give no evidence in their opinions and lives that they have heard it.  ~ Henry David Thoreau

Don't pray when it rains if you don't pray when the sun shines. ~ Satchel Paige

Bogey

I do not ever remember seeing carved heads like those....are they common, or was it a fad that had its time?
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz