Bach Better Than Handel

[Dancing Divertimentian]

What makes Handel's inconsistency problematic is that it occurs within a given work and not only in between them. Not everything Bach wrote is a supreme masterpiece, but you can rest assured that his "good" works are largely flawless. Not so with Handel.

Pray tell, where are the "inconsistencies" in Handel's Imeneo, Agrippina, Orlando, Saul, Solomon, Theodora, Israel In Egypt, Esther, Rinaldo.....

[71 dB]

This assertion makes no sense, but no matter. What makes Handel's inconsistency problematic is that it occurs within a given work and not only in between them. Not everything Bach wrote is a supreme masterpiece, but you can rest assured that his "good" works are largely flawless. Not so with Handel.

If Handel's best works aren't flawless to you then you simply demand to much! Personally I find it very difficult to find flaws in Handel's works but that's me. I enjoy more. 

[karlhenning]

If Handel's best works aren't flawless to you then you simply demand to much!

Not quite, Poju—for 'Josquin' will happily imagine that it is a matter of his demanding too much.  It is a matter of his demanding the wrong things, viz., that Handel should be Bach (or aught other than Handel).

[71 dB]

Not quite, Poju—for 'Josquin' will happily imagine that it is a matter of his demanding too much.  It is a matter of his demanding the wrong things, viz., that Handel should be Bach (or aught other than Handel).

Well, Josquin des Prez is an intelligent person. How could he do such an idiotic thing? 

[Marc]

Ironically TMO is a good example if the Bachinan 'cult' I was referring to above. That such dull music has been passed off as a supreme masterpiece by the musical academia is testament to it. Even the Bach fans I know find it tiresome.

There is no 'Bachinan cult'.
And there are no Bach fans who dislike Das Musikalische Opfer.
Music listeners who dislike it, are no Bach fans.
If a music listener can't produce patience, he or she shouldn't listen to Bach:

This is not a chalade!
You need total concentlation!

You now know a Bach fan who doesn't find it tiresome.

Now there's a Bach fan indeed.
(You are forgiven .)

Whatever the influences Bach always sounds like he is stuck in the back room of a German Church.

Well, apparently this back room must have been a great place to compose music with a touch of genious.

[karlhenning]

Well, Josquin des Prez is an intelligent person. How could he do such an idiotic thing?

At times, intelligence does not preclude idiocy. (Just saying.)

[Dr. Dread]

At times, intelligence does not preclude idiocy. (Just saying.)

Excellent.

[Josquin des Prez]

It is a matter of his demanding the wrong things, viz., that Handel should be Bach (or aught other than Handel).

wat

[71 dB]

At times, intelligence does not preclude idiocy. (Just saying.)

However, idiocy precludes intelligence. 

[jochanaan]

...Whatever the influences Bach always sounds like he is stuck in the back room of a German Church.

It would be more fair to say that many performances of Bach's music sound stuck in said room.

[jochanaan]

However, idiocy precludes intelligence. 

Not ALL kinds of idiocy!

[Coopmv]

If Handel's best works aren't flawless to you then you simply demand to much! Personally I find it very difficult to find flaws in Handel's works but that's me. I enjoy more. 

I have been listening to Handel's works for years and have yet to find a subpar work.  If a work sounds subpar, it is always the ensemble that has not done a good job in the performance ...

[FideLeo]

I have been listening to Handel's works for years and have yet to find a subpar work.  If a work sounds subpar, it is always the ensemble that has not done a good job in the performance ...

Definitely - Handel expects A LOT from the performer(s) and his music can easily sound empty and/or routine in less than inspired hands.

[Coopmv]

Definitely - Handel expects A LOT from the performer(s) and his music can easily sound empty and/or routine in less than inspired hands.

I have always considered Bach and Handel the twin pillars of baroque music.  Just imagine what the baroque music would be like without Bach and Handel.   

[FideLeo]

Just imagine what the baroque music would be like without Bach and Handel.  

I'd still be very happy with just Couperin, Rameau, Vivaldi, Telemann, Corelli, Scarlatti, Zelenka...though! 

[71 dB]

I have always considered Bach and Handel the twin pillars of baroque music.  Just imagine what the baroque music would be like without Bach and Handel.  

Ignorant people don't have a clue what there is "behind" Bach & Handel who perfected/culminated baroque music rather than invented it. By the time Bach and Handel started producing music, baroque as an artform had an 100 years old shining legacy.

[Lethevich]

Nice sig quote, Poju!

[Coopmv]

Ignorant people don't have a clue what there is "behind" Bach & Handel who perfected/culminated baroque music rather than invented it. By the time Bach and Handel started producing music, baroque as an artform had an 100 years old shining legacy.

You can make the same statement about Beethoven who is most identified with the classical period.  Yet it was the likes of JC Bach, Haydn and Stamitz who helped transition the baroque period into the classical period.  But do any of these composers get as much credit as the predecessors of JS Bach and Handel have?  I would think not.

[71 dB]

You can make the same statement about Beethoven who is most identified with the classical period.  Yet it was the likes of JC Bach, Haydn and Stamitz who helped transition the baroque period into the classical period.  But do any of these composers get as much credit as the predecessors of JS Bach and Handel have?  I would think not.

True but the "ignorance gap" between Schütz and J. S. Bach is much wider than between J. S. Bach and Franz Joseph Haydn.

[Coopmv]

True but the "ignorance gap" between Schütz and J. S. Bach is much wider than between J. S. Bach and Franz Joseph Haydn.

Not quite.  Heinrich Schütz is better known for his choral works while JS Bach is clearly more all-around.  Here are works of Schütz I have on CD and I have another dozen of works on LP.  I listened to Schütz's works much more often in the early days of my venture in classical music ...


Der Schwanengesang   Hilliard Ensemble   EMI
Magnificat & Psalms   Windsbacher Knabenchor   Bellaphon
Meine Seele erhebt den Herren   Musicalische Compagney   DG
Symphoniae Sacrae I   Cap. Leipzig   Capriccio
Psalms, motets   Cantus Colln   Harmonia