The Bach Cantatas

[aligreto]

Just a tad, and I am only scratching the surface so far. It is a fun exploration for me and quite a breakthrough as Choral Baroque has not always been my cup of tea. What I have heard of Herreweghe and Gardiner to date has been revelatory.

I am very pleased that you are enjoying your odyssey, Olivier. Some of it can be Life affirming music to some people. Happy exploring 

[Mandryka]

A noble performance of the first cantata of the Leipzig II cycle -- O Ewigkeit, du Donnerwort BWV 20. Exceptional sound, professional class singers, committed interpretation. There seems to be attention to detail, without ever lapsing into pretentiousness or self indulgence. Above all a sort of simplicity of expression which I find very affecting.  What's not to like?

When I say noble, what I mean is this. The opening chorale, a French overture, does not swagger in a vulgar way. Klaus Mertens's aria reveals the nuance and restraint which I'm enjoying.

[Mandryka]

Astonishing performance here of BWV 61. The opening section of the French overture has nothing portentous about it. The suggestion of something other worldly is palpable to me at least. This has to be heard!

The BWV 62 isn't half bad either -- this feels to me like an outstanding disc.

[Mandryka]

I've been listening to BWV 132, Bereitet die Wege, bereitet die Bahn.

One thing I am learning is that in these cantatas, I really must have singers who are good at making the words sound meaningful. Even if the interpretation and instrumentation are imaginative and bold, without poetic singing my mind wonders.



Suzuki ticks all the boxes. Peter Kooij, Makoto Sakurada, Ingrid Schmithüsen and above all Yoshikazu Mera are all on top form here with the text. The interpretation is absolutely well balanced as far as I can see: not too fast, not too slow; not too lyrical, not over-articulated.



Rilling also has a great cast here - Arleen Auger, Kurt Equiluz, Helen Watts, Wolfgang Schoene, and there's a lot I enjoy in the recording. It's large scale and it's lyrical, The vocality of the singers -- the way they project and their timbre, makes it all feels very grand, like it's being performed in a concert for a king, or an opera even.  I expect that's a valid approach in this sort of music, but I prefer something a bit more intimate.



Karl Richter has good vocalists - Edith Mathis, Peter Schreier, Theo Adam all know how to sing. Peter Schreier is a great favourite of mine, but he only sings for a couple of minutes. Richter's direction makes it sound a bit turgid to me.

[staxomega]

I've been listening to BWV 132, Bereitet die Wege, bereitet die Bahn.

One thing I am learning is that in these cantatas, I really must have singers who are good at making the words sound meaningful. Even if the interpretation and instrumentation are imaginative and bold, without poetic singing my mind wonders.



Suzuki ticks all the boxes. Peter Kooij, Makoto Sakurada, Ingrid Schmithüsen and above all Yosjikazu Mera are all on top form here with the text. The interpretation is absolutely well balanced as far as I can see: not too fast, not too slow; not too lyrical, not over-articulated.



Rilling also has a great cast here - Arleen Auger, Kurt Equiluz, Helen Watts, Wolfgang Schoene, and there's a lot I enjoy in the recording. It's large scale and it's lyrical, The vocality of the singers -- the way they project and their timbre, makes it all feels very grand, like it's being performed in a concert for a king, or an opera even.  I expect that's a valid approach in this sort of music, but I prefer something a bit more intimate.



Karl Richter has good vocalists - Edith Mathis, Peter Schreier, Theo Adam all know how to sing. Peter Schreier is a great favourite of mine, but he only sings for a couple of minutes. Richter's direction makes it sound a bit turgid to me.

Rilling was the first one that really blew me away in BWV 132, though in general I too prefer more informed performances these days.

[milk]

These recent posts inspired me to start listening to the Cantatas again and I think I'm falling in love with them more deeply. I love Kuijkin and other OVPP recordings. I think Ricercar and Montreal Baroque are also especially good. I'm ignorant about this genre of music though. I do not like the sound of contra tenor voice. Is it true that this can either be sung by female altos or male contras? BWV 189 (Himmelskonig) has really got me in its grip. BWV 12 as well. But every Bach cantata has something to offer. Now is almost Raster so I suppose those related works should be discussed.

[Jo498]

In Bach's time female singers would have been an exception in church music. Alto parts were sung by boys or male singers but nowadays one can do it either way.

[milk]

In Bach's time female singers would have been an exception in church music. Alto parts were sung by boys or male singers but nowadays one can do it either way.

That's what I thought. Seems like Kuijken uses only altos. It's one more reason I love his liturgical cycle. There's a lot of it, but I still want more! As far as OVPP recordings go, many use contratenor. I guess Milne/Montreal also uses alto. 

[Mandryka]

In Bach's time female singers would have been an exception in church music. Alto parts were sung by boys or male singers but nowadays one can do it either way.

Leonhardt recorded BWV 132 with Sebastian Hennig, a boy singer, and I nearly mentioned it when I made that post on Sunday. Hennig has a sort of beautiful innocence about his singing which, for me, disarms criticism, But you know, Leonhardt's conducting is so rigid sometimes, rigid pulse, that I don't think that the recording is competitive.


There's a very good violinist in it too though.

[Mandryka]

These recent posts inspired me to start listening to the Cantatas again and I think I'm falling in love with them more deeply. I love Kuijkin and other OVPP recordings. I think Ricercar and Montreal Baroque are also especially good. I'm ignorant about this genre of music though. I do not like the sound of contra tenor voice. Is it true that this can either be sung by female altos or male contras? BWV 189 (Himmelskonig) has really got me in its grip. BWV 12 as well. But every Bach cantata has something to offer. Now is almost Raster so I suppose those related works should be discussed.

I'm using this book as a guide,  I intend to work through it. But I can OD on the music! After a few I don't want to hear any baroque vocal stuff for a long time. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1538135566/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[staxomega]

I'm using this book as a guide,  I intend to work through it. But I can OD on the music! After a few I don't want to hear any baroque vocal stuff for a long time. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1538135566/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

"Operas for the Soul" what a very un-HIP title, it's making me think of Giulini in the B minor Mass  That one will really fill up the soul.

[Mandryka]

"Operas for the Soul" what a very un-HIP title, it's making me think of Giulini in the B minor Mass  That one will really fill up the soul.

i just don't know baroque operas well enough to comment on this really. Do you think that the music he wrote in the cantatas is really so different from stuff that, for example, Handel or Lully were writing for the theatre? I mean, I know people didn't put makeup on or dress up in costumes when they performed them - maybe the cantatas are just unstaged operas.   

[staxomega]

i just don't know baroque operas well enough to comment on this really. Do you think that the music he wrote in the cantatas is really so different from stuff that, for example, Handel or Lully were writing for the theatre? I mean, I know people didn't put makeup on or dress up in costumes when they performed them - maybe the cantatas are just unstaged operas.

I'm just having a laugh, "Operas for the Soul" sounds like a romantic title. Fortunately no one really massacres the cantatas like that, the closest I've heard to romantic in any of JSB's cantatas was when I last played BWV 140 from Karl Richter, which was a better sleep aid than Zolpidem. Slow tempi, comes across as flat, and without any of the heavenly qualities of say Klemperer in the B minor mass.

[milk]

I'm using this book as a guide,  I intend to work through it. But I can OD on the music! After a few I don't want to hear any baroque vocal stuff for a long time. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1538135566/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I wonder if it's over my head. This gives you the context for each cantata then? I am interested in that.

"Operas for the Soul" what a very un-HIP title, it's making me think of Giulini in the B minor Mass  That one will really fill up the soul.

I don't know why but I love the Cantatas whereas I can't stand operas. Am I the only one? I like lieder too.

[Mandryka]

Extremely impressive performance of BWV 91, Gelobt seist du, Jesu Christ, from Leusink. Singers and choir have a lot to do, all his singers have voices which are appealing to me, all sing intensely. And none of them project operatically. The impressive thing is the emotional range of the interpretation - joy through pain.

None of the others I tried - Suzuki, Koopman, Leonhardt, Kuijken, Rilling - were interesting for me. This is often because of the singers - either they didn't seem to make much of the poetry, or their vocality - timbre and projection - turned me off.

[Mandryka]

I wonder if it's over my head. This gives you the context for each cantata then? I am interested in that.

It's a good book - I managed to buy it with free returns from Amazon in the UK, so I could browse before deciding to keep it, with no risk.

I don't know why but I love the Cantatas whereas I can't stand operas. Am I the only one? I like lieder too.

I like opera, but not baroque opera. The cantatas have the benefit of being short.

[prémont]

I wonder if it's over my head. This gives you the context for each cantata then? I am interested in that.
I don't know why but I love the Cantatas whereas I can't stand operas. Am I the only one? I like lieder too.

No, you are not the only one. I also love the cantatas, but opera doesn't engage me. Nor do lieder, I'm afraid. In general I'm not that keen on romantic music.

[prémont]

None of the others I tried - Suzuki, Koopman, Leonhardt, Kuijken, Rilling - were interesting for me. This is often because of the singers - either they didn't seem to make much of the poetry, or their vocality - timbre and projection - turned me off.

This is also for me the pivotal problem with the different cantata-sets.

[staxomega]

I don't know why but I love the Cantatas whereas I can't stand operas. Am I the only one? I like lieder too.

I'm not the right person to ask, for the most part the only operas I listen to are Wagner and 20th century. I'll certainly be transfixed when Youtube recommends me some early era Maria Callas and the like but these aren't composers I'd go out of my way to hear operas from. Lieder I absolutely adore, Schubert's songs are always in my heavy rotation in the fall and winter months and the Hyperion mega box is one of my all time favorite boxes.

[milk]

This one was released in 2021, outside of the cycle. It's encouraging that Sigi doesn't let go. I see that BBC doesn't like OVPP and sited that as a reason for deducting two out of five stars. I think they should have found someone to review it who DOES like OVPP. I mean, what's the point? I find myself paying a lot of attention to the non-human instruments (played by humans) as well as the voices. There quite a lot going on in that regard. It's the interplay.