The Bach Cantatas

[prémont]

Richter is dismissed as a dinosaur by HIP purists and indeed he did resist the HIP movement. But, in a way, he was a precursor to it. He was the first to scale back forces (compare his to Klemperer's) which allowed him to take faster tempi.

Never-the-less Klemperer already performed the Brandenburg Concertos with small forces, when Richter was just a little boy.

[Bunny]

I guess I must be a dinosaur too, as I grew up with the Richter; at that time they were the HIP recordings.

Rifkin came a bit later as did Harnoncourt, Leonhardt, et al.

[KevinP]

Don't get me wrong. I very much like Uncle Otto's Mass and Matthew Passion. He's just the most well known example of old school performance practice.

His Bach Magnificat, however, is not so good, largely because of its use of the piano instead of a harpsichord in the continuo. The piano playing in the midrange register only sounds like bad acoustic pop.

[FideLeo]

Never-the-less Klemperer already performed the Brandenburg Concertos with small forces, when Richter was just a little boy.

And actually in Richter's Archiv set, other than for the sixth, there is very little that has anything to do with "small forces."  For that in the 1960s I would look at Collegium Aureum set.  Don't know how many violins etc. OK used for the ripieno.

[marvinbrown]

  I think it's about time I bumped this thread!  I have added quite a few sacred cantatas from emusic (mostly Suzuki and Rilling) to my collection and I am looking to explore more.  I'd like some feedback where I should go next based on this list of cantatas that are missing from my collection:

  1, 5, 11, 22, 29, 34, 49, 50, 56, 60, 77, 104, 130, 146, 150, 152, 161, 180, 201

  Specifically I am looking for beautiful chorus lines and melodic arias.  I heard a lot about Cantata 11, it is an orotorio and is very similar to Bach's Mass.  Cantata 150 attracted my attention after reading that Brahms was moved by it.  Cantata 1 is heavily choral, the rest are foreign to me- any advice/feedback would be appreciated.

  marvin





 

[prémont]

And actually in Richter's Archiv set, other than for the sixth, there is very little that has anything to do with "small forces."  For that in the 1960s I would look at Collegium Aureum set.  Don't know how many violins etc. OK used for the ripieno.

Richter used in his Brandenburgs for Archiv (as he explained in an interview) a string section like 8,8,5,4,2 if I remember correctly. I don´t know how great forces Klemperer used for his EMI Brandenburgs, but my listening impression is, that he used smaller forces than Richter.

[FideLeo]

Richter used in his Brandenburgs for Archiv (as he explained in an interview) a string section like 8,8,5,4,2 if I remember correctly. I don´t know how great forces Klemperer used for his EMI Brandenburgs, but my listening impression is, that he used smaller forces than Richter.

I guess for someone so used to OPPP or TPPPAM (two players per part at most) in Brandenburgs, Richter, OK or for that matter, Fritz Reiner were all using "large forces."   

[prémont]

I guess for someone so used to OPPP or TPPPAM (two players per part at most) in Brandenburgs, Richter, OK or for that matter, Fritz Reiner were all using "large forces."   

Yes, bad habits ar difficult to skip. But the commonly used number in European (non-HIP of course) chamber ensembles during the years from 1950 to 1970 was 4,4,3,3 or 2,1. This is true of ensembles like
Stuttgarter Kammerorchester (Münchinger),
Pro Arte, München (Redel) and
Festival Strings, Lucerne (Baumgartner),
so "state of the art" was gradually redefined.

[Que]

Bach cantatas lovers: any feedback on these by Philippe Pierlot on Mirare, now on offer at MDT?



Q

[FideLeo]

Bach cantatas lovers: any feedback on these by Philippe Pierlot on Mirare, now on offer at MDT?



Q

OVPP performances, quite like the new Kuijken series in other ways also.

[sTisTi]

Hi,
I am trying to expand my (still small) collection of Bach cantatas, but it's difficult to decide which ones to get next as there are so many recordings floating around.
I know that most if not all of Bach's cantatas are masterworks, but I have to start somewhere...
So, what are in your opinion the most essential cantatas, the ones it would be madness not to have? 

At the moment I have the following CDs:

Cantatas 8, 51, 78, 80, 140, 147 (Rifkin) (Double CD)
Cantatas 11, 43, 44 (Herreweghe)
Cantatas 36, 61, 62 (Herreweghe)
Cantatas 34, 59, 74, 172 (Gardiner)
Cantatas 6, 66 (Gardiner)
Cantatas 72, 73, 111, 156 (Gardiner)

[FideLeo]

the most essential cantatas, the ones it would be madness not to have? 

The Christmas Oratorio 

[Bunny]

Cantata 21 is probably one of the most profound and beautiful ever written.   

Bach wrote the Cantata when he arrived home from a journey only to discover that his wife had died so suddenly that the messages calling him to her deathbed and funeral had no time to reach him.  He went into a despair, and wrote this Cantata which deals with the basic questions of faith in God in the face of senseless tragedy.   It is the most personal of all the Cantatas, and to me the most powerful.

It is also one of the first to make use of the dramatic devices of the Italian opera, and was heavily criticized for the way the words were put to the music.  Nowadays, the repetition of words and phrases for emphasis is not remarkable.  Back then it created a firestorm of criticism.

[The new erato]

Cantata 21 is probably one of the most profound and beautiful ever written.   

Bach wrote the Cantata when he arrived home from a journey only to discover that his wife had died so suddenly that the messages calling him to her deathbed and funeral had no time to reach him.  He went into a despair, and wrote this Cantata which deals with the basic questions of faith in God in the face of senseless tragedy.   It is the most personal of all the Cantatas, and to me the most powerful.

My definite favorite as well and a deeply moving and profound work, but I wasn't aware of the circumstances of its writing. Thank you.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Check out this Bach cantata thread.

Lots of good info.

[FideLeo]

One of his earliest and best:

BWV4 "Christ lag in Todesbonden"

[val]

Just some suggestions:

BWV 4, 5, 11, 19, 20, 21, 23, 26, 44 (my absolute favorite), 54, 60, 70, 80, 82, 92,96, 114, 115, 126, 131 (perhaps the first Cantata composed by Bach), 138, 140, 171, 178, 199.

[Que]

Given the sheer number of Bach cantatas, I fully understand the reason for this question. But knowing them all, it feels for me like naming favourite LvB string quartets or symphonies. They are pretty much almost all impressive, and naming some feels like doing injustice to most others.

But, hey, let's do it!

BWV 4*, 5, 11*, 12, 18, 19, 20, 21*, 24, 31, 35, 36, 38, 51, 54*, 57*, 60, 61, 62, 63, 70*, 80*, 82*, 106*, 115, 116, 131*, 140*, 143, 152, 161, 180, 198*, 199*.

(* = extra special)

Q

[sTisTi]

Thank you very much for all your helpful answers! I know it is always hard to pick favourites if one is forced to choose among such riches.
Now I have lots of suggestions for further exploring these works and trouble myself with choosing favourite recordings 

[david johnson]

glad i checked this thread.  i shall invest in some of these.

dj