The Bach Cantatas

[dirkronk]

Congratulations from me, too, Marvin. I haven't contributed to this thread, mainly because I haven't explored Bach's cantata's much at all myself (with a few exceptions--Peasant, Coffee, et al). But may I ask that you report which of the Harnoncourt & Crew performances you find most satisfying? Reason: I just learned that my public library has copies of most of this series, and I wouldn't mind letting my own discovery of these works follow the experience and recommendations you can provide in listening to your new set. Many thanks in advance--and again...enjoy!

Cheers,

Dirk

[knight66]

This post was prompted by Andy who I initially thought was not listening to Bach; however, it emerged he does listen to Bach, just not as much as to Wagner. So I will in any case put the post here.

There is the old debate about whether music can mean anything beyond filling space with sound. Whether or not it can be totally specific; it is clear it can and does evoke emotions. Though responses are of course subjective. I have come off the platform completely exhilarated by a performance of Mahler 8, to have a member of the audience berate me with his negativity to the music. He claimed Mahler was an hysteric, clearly a disturbed mind and what came out of his music was his disturbed spew. So, a composer may be trying to convey something, but it is not always going to get across.

Work has been done to test emotional responses to abstract sounds and certain keys can evoke a specific range of emotions fairly reliably. We have music and rhythm within nature and we respond to it at a subconscious level. For example; the drip of water through leaves can emulate our heart beat, which is then stitched into any rhythmic percussive sound. On another tack, music can either slow the heartbeat or speed it up. So, I think it is clear that we are able to respond in consensus emotionally to music, which implies it has some meaning, though we may not be able to nail that meaning. Some say that whereas Wagner goes for the emotions, Bach's music is perhaps colder, less emotional, more cerebral.

I think this is subjective. Whereas some find Wagner to be on almost constant overload, others respond to him as though they have arrived home from a long hard journey. I love a lot of his music; though I do on occasion notice my bum going numb. Exactly the same could be said by others, if you substitute Bach's name and just mention the St Matthew Passion.

RVW wrote his Tallis Fantasia, a miracle of a piece; but only if you are open to that kind of music. What can put me into an almost catatonic state of rapture bores the socks off my son. So is all this merely in the ear of the hearer? I don't think so. If we have a sufficient body of people responding to specific music in a specific range of ways; then it seems that the music is indeed connecting to at least the emotional parts of people in those specific ways; also possibly to what many might term their spiritual self.

The prelude to Lohengrin is said by some to provide a spiritual experience; I think it is aimed to do so. When sharing my thoughts about Bach, I am concentrating on the Vocal music. I would in any case agree with the suggestion that Bach is only rarely trying to do in his purely orchestral music what for example Bruckner was striving to do. However; the cello suites can be mined for the most profound feelings. Depending on how the flute sonatas are played; they are either high tone wallpaper music; or expressions of joy and contemplation.

Here I will enter on controversial territory. In his religious music, Bach was setting words that had specific meaning to him and to people with Faith. He was pairing instruments to help to induce the atmosphere he wanted and he was using instruments as symbols.  For example, he used the flute to denote the Holy Spirit.  The core of his religious music lies in his arias. These are often deeply contemplative, long, sinuous melodies unwind, the voice is often paired with a wind instrument; so you get a duet, abstract sound and with words. If you believe these words, then there is the real possibility you get more out of Bach than if it is solely art music to you. He is often taking people to the heart of their faith. This is also a deeply emotional journey, but not hysterical. Bach rarely addresses worldly love, yet he plumbs quite a range of human emotion. Yearning, grief, parenthood, transcendence, healing. He is also teaching about patience, fortitude, faithfulness etc.

So, not often great drama in the Wagnerian mould; though the St Matthew in the McCreech one voice to a part is full of thrusting drama and manages the stasis and repose the work needs.

In addition.

Cantata no 82 Janet Baker, or Hans Hotter, or Lorraine Hunt Lieberson
Cantata 56, Dietrich Fischer Dieskau
Cantata 170 Janet Baker

The above are all solo cantatas

There is also a wealth of cantatas for groups of singers and choir. The B Minor Mass is a must, but what version depends whether you want HIP or modern instruments, ditto St Matthew Passion.

Within all of these lie deep emotional experiences, not flashy, not sweeping you away with the volume of sound. Rather the quiet voice that speaks powerfully, consolingly and with a beauty that aches.

Mike

[Bulldog]

He is often taking people to the heart of their faith. This is also a deeply emotional journey, but not hysterical. Bach rarely addresses worldly love, yet he plumbs quite a range of human emotion. Yearning, grief, parenthood, transcendence, healing. He is also teaching about patience, fortitude, faithfulness etc.

Don't forget the dark side of life - menace, violence, revenge, etc.  Bach hits all areas.

[knight66]

Yes, you are right, also despair, doubt.

It ended up as a foreshortened post. But I thought it was quite long enough already.

Mike

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Naïve has finally gotten around to reissuing the third and final installment of Christophe Coin's traversal of cantatas, whose commonality is the inclusion of the violoncello piccolo, which is a small five-stringed cello. Unique in timbre, it's not as beefy sounding as a standard cello, but makes up for it in warmth and breadth. 

A quick note about the opening movement of BWV 41: it ranks among the towering achievements of Bach's art. Rich and full and expertly layered with customary sparkle.





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[Todd]

I read in the local paper that Eric Milnes and Montreal Baroque are in the midst of recording all of the cantatas for the Atma label.  It seems that the difference with this set will be choir size: they'll be doing one singer per part.  May be interesting and will certainly lend even greater clarity.  (Milnes is in town this weekend to conduct the Christman Oratorio, but alas I cannot attend.)  That'll be what, four or five (or more?) complete cycles out ther when he's done? 

[Sorin Eushayson]

These complete sets of cantatas can be a bit intimidating.  I'm finding the best thing is to ration them out, listen to them when they're relevant.  Over at CMM we just started a series on them based on the Lutheran Church Year, starting the first Sunday in Advent (I'm resisting the temptation to shamelessly plug my thread with a well-placed URL right now ).  It helps put them into context a bit.  We're using the Brilliant Classics set for samples, by the way; excellent performances for an excellent price, highly recommended.

[Bulldog]

These complete sets of cantatas can be a bit intimidating.  I'm finding the best thing is to ration them out, listen to them when they're relevant. 

On musical grounds, each one is always meaningful.

[Sorin Eushayson]

On musical grounds, each one is always meaningful.

Well, I won't argue with that! 

[Bogey]

Naïve has finally gotten around to reissuing the third and final installment of Christophe Coin's traversal of cantatas, whose commonality is the inclusion of the violoncello piccolo, which is a small five-stringed cello. Unique in timbre, it's not as beefy sounding as a standard cello, but makes up for it in warmth and breadth. 

A quick note about the opening movement of BWV 41: it ranks among the towering achievements of Bach's art. Rich and full and expertly layered with customary sparkle.





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This looks VERY intriguing, Don.  Thanks.  Just added to the top of my wish list.

[Bulldog]

This looks VERY intriguing, Don.  Thanks.  Just added to the top of my wish list.

Excellent choice.  I acquired those three Coin recordings when they were first released and have enjoyed them very much over the years.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

This looks VERY intriguing, Don.  Thanks.  Just added to the top of my wish list.

Cool, Bill! Anxious to hear your impressions if you pull the trigger.

[Bogey]

Cool, Bill! Anxious to hear your impressions if you pull the trigger.

Well, with Don's weigh in, it looks as though not if, but when.  In short, the "Dons" have spoken and neither has ever let me down on a rec.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Well, with Don's weigh in, it looks as though not if, but when.  In short, the "Dons" have spoken and neither has ever let me down on a rec.

Yes, that's us, Bill. The "Dons". GMG's elite panel of reviewers:

[DavidW]

Nah Don it's more like this--

[Bulldog]

Nah Don it's more like this--

There's nothing like a seasoned reviewer.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Nah Don it's more like this--

Stinker!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

There's nothing like a seasoned reviewer.

An under-appreciated occupation.

[Bogey]

Had to show my wife and kids this thread.  *still LOL*

[Bogey]

Cool, Bill! Anxious to hear your impressions if you pull the trigger.

Well, the recording was netted in my Christmas gifts.  Will give a full listen tomorrow.