The Bach Cantatas

Started by Que, April 08, 2007, 01:51:45 AM

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Marc

#260
Quote from: donwyn on January 22, 2009, 04:24:28 PM
I'd say Veldhoven puts his personal stamp on Bach but that's a far cry from "doesn't have a clue".

I have his Christmas Oratorio and St. John Passion and find them wonderful.

Herreweghe's more sullen style is my overall preferred in Bach but I find Veldhoven a nice counterweight.

My 'problem' is: I can hear great things in almost every interpretation. :( ;)
So of course Van Veldhoven is a nice counterweight to me, too. (Although I do not expercience Herreweghe's style as sullen, but more like a warm, crackling and comforting fireplace.)

I was reffering to Van Veldhoven's interpretation of the two SJP tenor-arias. When I listen to them in his recording, I can't help but think this really must be some kind of a statement only, because the lyrics do not subscribe to this interpretation at all.

The first aria Ach, mein Sinn is about a soul in panic and total distress (Peter, who is unthinking), after he has denied his best friend. The utterly slow way Van Veldhoven plays it, sounds more like a mourning lullaby, dedicated to a friend who died (and Jesus is still alive). Anyway, IMO, this isn't the way you feel when you're totally in anguish. Therefore I think that this has to be played in a totally different way.

The second aria is an appeal for consideration. We, the listeners/believers/churchgoers should expercience that Jesus' bleeding back and the brutal slashing of the whip are actually signs of God's ability to love and forgive. This is really wonderfully composed, by using the two violas d'amore (violins of love) in such a poignant and harrowing way.
If you rush this aria like Van Veldhoven does, we really do not get a chance to experience anything at all (especially the effect of the two string instruments has almost totally disappeared), and to consider what the flogging and torture really means.

Is it possible that Van Veldhoven has exchanged both interpretations? ???
To me, the first aria should have been played like Van Veldhoven plays the second, and vice versa.

In general, though: I think this is a good recording of Bach's SJP. I admit the above is mainly criticism about details. But I hope that I somehow made my point.

Marc


Bogey

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Coopmv

Quote from: Bogey on February 05, 2009, 06:26:19 PM
Is this available on cd yet, Marc?

I ordered the St Matthew Passion by Herreweghe after having heard so many people raved about it.  Unfortunately, the set has not arrived yet, along with 2 other sets that were in the same MDT order.  There is no doubt Herreweghe has a different approach to Bach's choral works, but that does not necessarily mean he is better.  This is where I find interpretations between different conductors intriguing.  I personally think very highly of the St Matthew Passion by HvK among the nine versions I have ...

Marc

Quote from: Bogey on February 05, 2009, 06:26:19 PM
Is this available on cd yet, Marc?

I think that depends on where you live.
And I guess I'm lucky in this case. :P
Here, in the Netherlands, it was released already a few weeks ago. I bought it at mid-price, and (of course ;)) without any regrets.
At the Amazon.com-site it is said official release date: February 26, 2009.

And on the German Amazon-site it will be released at February 13, but it's possible to order it already.
http://www.amazon.de/Jesu-Deine-Passion-Bwv-127-159/dp/B001L15C8W

And, of course, there are also some CD shops in the Netherlands, where there is a possibility to order CD's when you're living abroad.
For instance:
http://www.prelude-klassiekemuziek.nl/
At the homepage, click on the 'Union Jack' and you can read all about it, in english. The Jesu, deine Passion-issue is available there for € 15,00.

Good luck!

Mandryka

I've recently discovered this ancient CD, which is giving me a lot of pleasure, especially the young Schwarzkopf singing Jauchzet Gott in allen Landen.

Highly recommended if you're not allergic.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Coopmv

Quote from: Mandryka on February 06, 2009, 12:39:04 PM
I've recently discovered this ancient CD, which is giving me a lot of pleasure, especially the young Schwarzkopf singing Jauchzet Gott in allen Landen.

Highly recommended if you're not allergic.

I bought this CD from Moviemar based in North Carolina.  While I had some good experience with this outfit for the first 2 orders, this CD arrived unsealed and has scratches.  Lo and behold, it also skips in one of my CD players.  After an email complaint that was ignored, the order also became the last order I ever placed with this Amazon MarketPlace vendor.  Indeed, the singing on this CD is beautiful.

Bogey

Quote from: Marc on February 06, 2009, 01:03:53 AM
I think that depends on where you live.
And I guess I'm lucky in this case. :P
Here, in the Netherlands, it was released already a few weeks ago. I bought it at mid-price, and (of course ;)) without any regrets.
At the Amazon.com-site it is said official release date: February 26, 2009.

And on the German Amazon-site it will be released at February 13, but it's possible to order it already.
http://www.amazon.de/Jesu-Deine-Passion-Bwv-127-159/dp/B001L15C8W

And, of course, there are also some CD shops in the Netherlands, where there is a possibility to order CD's when you're living abroad.
For instance:
http://www.prelude-klassiekemuziek.nl/
At the homepage, click on the 'Union Jack' and you can read all about it, in english. The Jesu, deine Passion-issue is available there for € 15,00.

Good luck!

Thanks much. 
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Coopmv

Since I already have 2 complete Bach Cantatas on CD alone, I doubt I will be collecting a third set anytime soon.  I am always willing to take a look at what is new and promising.  I picked up the following set at my local Borders for a song.  I paid no more than $20 for the set, which is now OOP and the best price on Amazon is about $40.  I bought the St Mathew Passion by Herreweghe from MDT a few days ago and the set is still in cellophane.

Bill,  Keep an eye on your local Borders store, you just never know what bargains may be available in the brick-and-mortar store ...


jlaurson

Is this the place for Bach Cantatas?

This is the latest (if you're in DC you can still run out and catch it)...

on BWV 21

http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=531

Feedback and mild criticism as always appreciated.

Cheers,

jfl

jlaurson

While we are at it, this preceded the BWV 21 missive:

Bach for Palm Sunday
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=520

on BWV 182

QuoteFor today, Palm Sunday, it is BWV 182 Himmelskönig, sei willkommen ("King of Heaven, be Thou welcome"), first performed on March 25th, 1714 in Weimar. That this is the only cantata for Palm Sunday has to do with the tradition in Leipzig to perform Passions, but not cantatas on the Sundays in Lent. And that it's such an extensive cantata has to do with Palm Sunday concurring with the Annunciation that year, making that Sunday a very special event.

BWV 182 opens with a sonata for violin, recorder, and basso continuo. After the chorus of "Himmelskönig..." and the recitative for bass, three successive arias (for bass, alto, and tenor) follow. The alto aria with recorder "Leget euch dem Heiland unter" is a slow moving (over 10 minutes in Karl Richter's recording with Anna Reynolds but only 6:30 with Ton Koopman's counter tenor Kai Wessel), beautiful point of rest before the tenor aria "Jesu, lass durch Wohl und Weh" suggests weariness...

etc.etc.

Marc

Quote from: jlaurson on May 05, 2009, 06:47:49 AM
Is this the place for Bach Cantatas?

You guessed right! :)

Quote from: jlaurson
This is the latest (if you're in DC you can still run out and catch it)...

on BWV 21

http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=531

Feedback and mild criticism as always appreciated.

BWV 21 is great!
I don't know all the versions you mention. I'm not familiar with the non-HIPs and also with the Purcell Quartet. I do have Volume 1 of the latter, thought it was very shallow and decided to avoid them. :(

About your preferences in the HIP-section: they look a lot like mine. I slightly prefer Herreweghe to Kuijken, but that's only marginal. Unfortunately René Jacobs' voice (Kuijken recording) wasn't all that good anymore in those years, compared to his 70's recordings for f.i. Leonhardt.

Barbara Schlick, IMHO, is very good in Herreweghe's performance. But in Koopman's recording she had difficulties with the higher regions, probably because Koopman opted for a higher pitch, according to the Weimar circumstances.

jlaurson

Quote from: Marc on May 05, 2009, 08:33:49 AM
You guessed right! :)

actually it had to be moved here by some admin.  :(

Quote from: Marc on May 05, 2009, 08:33:49 AM
BWV 21 is great!
I don't know all the versions you mention. I'm not familiar with the non-HIPs and also with the Purcell Quartet.
About your preferences in the HIP-section: they look a lot like mine. I slightly prefer Herreweghe to Kuijken, but that's only marginal. Unfortunately René Jacobs' voice (Kuijken recording) wasn't all that good anymore in those years, compared to his 70's recordings for f.i. Leonhardt.
Barbara Schlick... had difficulties with the higher regions, probably because Koopman opted for a higher pitch, according to the Weimar circumstances.

Hamburg/Koethen circumstances, to be finnicky ;). But yes, Koopman has her go through it in D-minor, Herreweghe in C-minor. Since they use the same pitch, that's a whole tone higher for her to sing with TK than with PH.

Marc

Quote from: jlaurson on May 05, 2009, 09:19:01 AM
Hamburg/Koethen circumstances, to be finnicky ;).

Finnicky: no problem. I was too lazy to check all the booklets myself. :P

premont

Quote from: Marc on January 24, 2009, 11:56:30 PM
My 'problem' is: I can hear great things in almost every interpretation. :( ;)

My problem too. Even in Leusink´s Sacred Cantata set.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Marc

#275
Quote from: premont on May 05, 2009, 02:05:25 PM
My problem too. Even in Leusink´s Sacred Cantata set.

Sure. But I'm sorry to say: I cannot stand Knut Schoch's voice, and also the choir singing isn't very much to my likings. But surely it was a great achievement of Leusink c.s. to record all Bach cantatas in a periode of appr. one year.

robnewman

#276

J.S. Bach
Aria (Alto)
Cantata BWV 117/7
Ich will dich all mein Leben lang

http://www.mediafire.com/?3jhzyiyhkey


Coopmv

Quote from: Marc on May 07, 2009, 10:40:33 AM
Sure. But I'm sorry to say: I cannot stand Knut Schoch's voice, and also the choir singing isn't very much to my likings. But surely it was a great achievement of Leusink c.s. to record all Bach cantatas in a periode of appr. one year.

I had an aversion for Rene Jacobs before he got into conducting ...

Antoine Marchand

What a great experience are every time the Bach cantatas.

Do you remember the movie American Beauty? There the character Ricky Fitts explains to Jane a video filmed by him, where a little bag is rocked by the wind:

"It was one of those days when it's a minute away from snowing and there's this electricity in the air, you can almost hear it. And this bag was, like, dancing with me. Like a little kid begging me to play with it. For fifteen minutes. And that's the day I knew there was this entire life behind things, and... this incredibly benevolent force, that wanted me to know there was no reason to be afraid, ever. Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in".

Something like that is frequently my sensation with Bach and it has been today my experience with a new disc by the Ricercar Consort. It includes three early cantatas (BWV 131, 182, 4) played in the usual sober style of the group conducted by Pierlot, accompanied by four excellent singers (Katharine Fuge, soprano; Carlos Mena, contra-tenor; Hans Jörg Mammel, tenor; Stephan McLeod, bass).

An immense sensation of calm beauty, like the painting on the cover:

"The Magdalen in a Landscape" (or "The Magdalen Penitent")
Adriaen Isenbrandt or Adrien, Isenbrant, Ysenbrant, Ysenbrandt or Hysebrant (1480 or 90–1551)
Dimensions : 40 cm x 31 cm
circa from 1510 to 1525


Bunny

Quote from: Bogey on February 05, 2009, 06:26:19 PM
Is this available on cd yet, Marc?

Just follow the link on the page that says "also available in cd format;)