The Bach Cantatas

[marvinbrown]

How long was this set in the making, i.e. what was the total elapsed time between the recordings of the first and the last cantata?  I am quite happy with this set, which I bought in early 2009 but still have another 35 CD's to listen through.  LOL

  This is an excellent set!  I have heard it twice in its entirety since acquiring it in a few years ago.  I have commented on it numerous times here and in the What Are You Listening To? thread.  It might be a struggle (due to its length!)  to get through it the first time around but it WILL grow on you and in time you will find that it is all you want to listen to.  I have used the words RAW and EARNEST to describe the performances. I can not think of any other set that matches this set in that regard.

  marvin

[Coopmv]

  This is an excellent set!  I have heard it twice in its entirety since acquiring it in a few years ago.  I have commented on it numerous times here and in the What Are You Listening To? thread.  It might be a struggle (due to its length!)  to get through it the first time around but it WILL grow on you and in time you will find that it is all you want to listen to.  I have used the words RAW and EARNEST to describe the performances. I can not think of any other set that matches this set in that regard.

  marvin

I think this set may well be the definitive version of Bach Complete Cantatas, though I have not had the chance to listen to a good number of the cantatas in Koopman set.  While some people may consider Leonhardt's performance on the harpsichord a bit dry at times, the Leonhardt-Consort under his direction  provided some exhilarating performance in this set.

[Jay F]

How long was this set in the making, i.e. what was the total elapsed time between the recordings of the first and the last cantata?  I am quite happy with this set, which I bought in early 2009 but still have another 35 CD's to listen through.  LOL

Who is this set by, Stuart?

[Antoine Marchand]

  This is an excellent set!  I have heard it twice in its entirety since acquiring it in a few years ago.  I have commented on it numerous times here and in the What Are You Listening To? thread.  It might be a struggle (due to its length!)  to get through it the first time around but it WILL grow on you and in time you will find that it is all you want to listen to.  I have used the words RAW and EARNEST to describe the performances. I can not think of any other set that matches this set in that regard.

  marvin

Hi, marvin. I thought you would maybe interested in reading this short review (written on Amazon) by the great harpsichordist Peter Watchorn. It's short, but very informative and written with a sort of deep emotion:


[5.0 out of 5 stars] The Greatest of all Bach Cantata Recordings, November 8, 2008
By
Peter G. Watchorn (Cambridge, MA USA)
_________
This review is from: Bach: The Sacred Cantatas [Box Set] (Audio CD)
_________
I first wrote this review in 2003 for the previous incarnation of this set. I see that it is now down to under $250 in its new compact format. When I acquired the original LP sets (with scores) between 1971 & 1989 the cost was over $1,300. It is still the greatest and most powerful recording in existence of these works, for, with its various blemishes, it contains the most eloquent musicianship of the pioneers of the Early Music revival from Vienna and Amsterdam. The blemishes are important too, as they eloquently document the rapid development of skills necessary to realise one of the leading musical ideas of our time: attempting to get as close as possible to the actual sounds the composers heard when they wrote their music. As a next-generation member of this fraternity (I am a professional harpsichordist, organist and co-director of several ensembles specializing in Bach's music, and have worked with many of the people on these recordings. I have also written a major biography of one of the members of the generation before Leonhardt & Harnoncourt, the Viennese harpsichordist Isolde Ahlgrimm), I can only reiterate even more strongly what I wrote five years ago and urge lovers of Bach to acquire this set immediately. Here is my original review:

Had this set not been made, then the history of performance practice in the last quarter of the 20th century and beyond would have proceeded very differently. Had this set not been made we would not have many of the current leading figures in the field of early music performance, nearly all of whom were in some way connected with the performance revolution which found its most profound expression in these recordings. For it was during the 14 or so years of this recording project (between 1971 and 1985) that three of the greatest musicians of our time, Gustav Leonhardt, Nikolaus Harnoncourt and Frans Bruggen forever altered the public's perception of the surviving remnants of Bach's fabled, but rarely heard, "Jahrgaenge", or yearly cycles of church cantatas. For this reason alone, this recording is of profound importance.
Leonhardt, with his consort in Amsterdam, and Harnoncourt, with his Concentus Musicus of Vienna shared the task of recording, with an unmatched team of vocal and instrumental soloists, Bach's roughly 200 surviving "concerti sacri", perhaps a further hundred being lost to us. It was a repertoire more honoured in the history books than experienced in performance. This enterprise changed that state of affairs for ever.

The arguments which are now sometimes made (chiefly by those who are unaware of the extraordinary and revolutionary step which these performances represented), decrying the slightly "raw" (I prefer "vocal") sound of original instruments, or the occasional shakiness of a boy soprano soloist, miss the point of this enterprise, which was to present the music in a new way using Bach's own contemporary resources. Leonhardt and Harnoncourt are the first to insist that using "historical instruments" makes sense because those are simply the best tools for the job. Re-constituting something old has never been their aim. Rather, their idea was to break free of the mindless tradition of performance which took no account of the sounds that Bach actually had in his head when he created his "well-regulated" music for the churches of Saxony. And how does this work in practice? We are left to marvel at an extraordinary level of accomplishment on the part of nearly everyone associated with this project, vocally and instrumentally.

Gustav Leonhardt was well aware (and hopeful) that subsequent generations would likely improve upon aspects of performance which still remained to be sorted out. But, as he said, it was a start. Indeed, when he and Harnoncourt were jointly awarded the Erasmus prize in the Netherlands in 1980, he remarked, with singular modesty and self-awareness: "It was not done well, but it is remarkable that it was done at all". This tells us more about Leonhardt's famous humility, than it does about the standards of these performances, which are usually (with few exceptions) very high indeed. In many instances they will never be surpassed. What we have here is a glimpse of one of music's "golden" ages captured forever on disc. What the listener will marvel at is the extraordinary assuredness of technique and style which is evident in every one of these cantata performances.

The solo vocal contributions of Kurt Equiluz, Max van Egmond, Paul Esswood, Marjanne Kweksilber (BWV 51) are simply without equal, and the current generation of fine Bach singers would be the first to concede their enormous debt to the participants in this great enterprise (their teachers, in many cases). The choirs should also be singled out for attention: Wiener Sangerknaben, Tolzer Knabenchor, Hannover Knabenchor, Choir of Kings College, Cambridge as well as directors Heinz Hennig, Gerhard Schmidt-Gaden, Philippe Herreweghe, David Willcocks and Hans Gillesberger. So Europe's finest were all involved in this.

The instrumental soloists: Frans Bruggen, Walter van Hauwe, Kees Boeke, Anner Bylsma, Jurg Schaftlein, Lucy van Dael, Sigiswald, Wieland and Bart Kuijken, Ton Koopman, Bob van Asperen, Lidewij Schiefes, Alice Harnoncourt, Herbert and Herwig Tachezi, Erich Hobarth, Friedemann Immer - to list only the more familiar names - have created a whole world of intelligent and vital performance which has transformed musical thought in our time. No-one in any area of musical performance has remained untouched by the ideas which are so forcefully presented here (even those who'd be the last to admit it). The fundamental idea of treating each period's music as a vital and representative product of its time is one which now extends to music of all periods, signaling the fulfilment of one of Leonhardt's and Harnoncourt's chief aims: to eliminate the artificial distinction between mainstream and "early" music, and, instead, to treat all music with proper respect for its origins and context.

What this recording continues to offer the listener is the experience of hearing the music for the first time, which the technical polish of subsequent surveys cannot quite match. For the young person wishing to learn about music, there is no better starting point than investing in this set, now available at a fraction of its original cost (unfortunately, minus the scores, which were one of the hallmarks of this series in its first incarnation on LP.

It seems pointless to list highlights, but one might start with the following: BWV 1, 6, 8, 11, 13, 19, 23, 29 and so on. The list is endless. Better still, buy the set and begin a life-time's voyage of discovery instead. Bach, Leonhardt and Harnoncourt: you can't do better than that. Oh, and we should also acknowledge the contribution of the founder recording producer for this project, Wolf Erichson (even though he didn't stay with Teldec to the end of it). Without him, the revolution in informed and intelligent music performance on recordings would never have happened.

2008: At its new price and in its new format, this set is now within reach of everyone who loves Bach's music, eloquently performed by the greatest specialist musicians of our time. One of the pinnacles of recording.

Peter Watchorn (2008 & 2003) 

[Coopmv]

Who is this set by, Stuart?

Gustav Leonhardt and Nikolaus Harnoncourt with their respective ensembles.

[Jay F]

Gustav Leonhardt and Nikolaus Harnoncourt with their respective ensembles.

Any overlap or duplications?

[Coopmv]

Any overlap or duplications?

I doubt there are any overlaps, though I am not 100% sure.  I believe another set by Ton Koopman has comparable number of CD's.

[Opus106]

Any overlap or duplications?

More a collaborative effort.

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/H&L-Rec2.htm

[marvinbrown]

  Excellent review Antoine Marchand thank you for posting it.

[jlaurson]

More a collaborative effort.

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/H&L-Rec2.htm

Precisely.

I should also add, despite or because the fine and emotionally charged Watchorn review above, that the set is more important than it is good.
The musical standards have come a LONG way since then, and the trebles being used can be taxing on the ears.
The project was stunning and revolutionary in a way the first complete Bach Cantata set (Rilling) wasn't... and anyone collecting the LPs
with the scores among them (!) remembers it fondly; it left a huge emotional footprint. That said, on purely musical terms, I don't think
it's not really competition with Koopman, the only other HIP set that's complete and out there... nor with any of the HIP sets under way.
At least it's better than the incomplete Rotzsch, though... largely because the latter has sound issues that the performances can't overcome.

[Antoine Marchand]

I should also add, despite or because the fine and emotionally Watchorn review above, that the set is more important than it is good.
The musical standards have come a LONG way since then, and the trebles being used can be taxing on the ears.

Yes, I know some people feel that way. Just yesterday I talked with a good friend of mine who thinks similarly regarding Leonhardt's version of the harpsichord concertos (another milestone, IMHO). Beyond of the usual critic against the treble voices sung by boys, I consider difficult to think these things in terms of "progress", probably because I don't feel anything out of place when I hear the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt cycle. I even enjoy some limitations and trepidations of the juvenile voices as a sort of evocation of the human limitations and trepidations before their Creator, as Watchorn suggests... But after all I also enjoy those old SEON recordings which many people consider almost obsolete today, both in performing and sonic terms.

... it's not really competition with Koopman, the only other HIP set that's complete and out there... nor with any of the HIP sets under way.
At least it's better than the incomplete Rotzsch, though... largely because the latter has sound issues that the performances can't overcome.

Don't forget Leusink's (Brilliant) and Gardiner's (Archiv/SDG) as complete sets of sacred cantatas.

[jlaurson]

Don't forget Leusink's (Brilliant) and Gardiner's (Archiv/SDG) as complete sets of sacred cantatas.

Ah, yes, Leusink is easy to forget. In more than one way. Is Gardiner finished yet? Even if, it's not a coherent / complete set and not available as such. And, much as I love, love, love those SDG volumes aesthetically, I don't think Gardiner's ad-hoc efforts, though brilliant at their best, can touch Koopman. Then again, they do have that 'human, fallible' element in them, as could be said of Harnoncourt / Leonhardt.

Incidentally I really like the SEON recordings of Leonhard (and others) that I have... haven't ever detected anything there that my ears reject.

[Antoine Marchand]

Ah, yes, Leusink is easy to forget. In more than one way. Is Gardiner finished yet? Even if, it's not a coherent / complete set and not available as such. And, much as I love, love, love those SDG volumes aesthetically, I don't think Gardiner's ad-hoc efforts, though brilliant at their best, can touch Koopman. Then again, they do have that 'human, fallible' element in them, as could be said of Harnoncourt / Leonhardt.

Incidentally I really like the SEON recordings of Leonhard (and others) that I have... haven't ever detected anything there that my ears reject.

I disagree about Leusink. I think it's a cycle with several enjoyable aspects, generally the instrumental forces, some excellent singers (Ruth Holton is a remarkable case) and a general "consistency" of style probably derived in a good measure from the short period of recording. For instance, I clearly prefer Leusink over Rilling.   

Yes, Gardiner has finished his traversal: 27 vols. on SDG (some of them single discs), plus 12 CDs on Archiv.

Incidentally I really like the SEON recordings of Leonhard (and others) that I have... haven't ever detected anything there that my ears reject.

Then we have a complete agreement here. 

[chasmaniac]

I disagree about Leusink. I think it's a cycle with several enjoyable aspects, generally the instrumental forces, some excellent singers (Ruth Holton is a remarkable case) and a general "consistency" of style probably derived in a good measure from the short period of recording. For instance, I clearly prefer Leusink over Rilling.

Lots of folk dump on the Leusinck, but I think he's OK by and large. His countertenor, that Buwalda chap, on the other hand...

[Antoine Marchand]

His countertenor, that Buwalda chap, on the other hand...

I agree; that guy is a weak point.

[Antoine Marchand]

And, much as I love, love, love those SDG volumes aesthetically, I don't think Gardiner's ad-hoc efforts, though brilliant at their best, can touch Koopman. Then again, they do have that 'human, fallible' element in them, as could be said of Harnoncourt / Leonhardt.

Although over the years Gardiner's recordings have grown on me, I still prefer Koopman. It's curious because yesterday the conversation with my friend also included that 'human, fallible' element present (IMO) in Koopman's vocal interpretations. That's the reason because I prefer (!) Koopman over Herreweghe and Suzuki, both of them supreme beauticians, but frequently too much "impersonal" and "angelical" to my taste. I search for a chorus of men singing (beautifully, painfully) to God, more than a chorus of angels singing our miseries, pains and joys.

[jlaurson]

I disagree about Leusink. I think it's a cycle with several enjoyable aspects, generally the instrumental forces, some excellent singers (Ruth Holton is a remarkable case) and a general "consistency" of style probably derived in a good measure from the short period of recording. For instance, I clearly prefer Leusink over Rilling.   

Oh, we don't disagree that much over Leusink. Certainly more even than Rilling... and I don't mind the patch-and-record style in which is was made. It's certainly better than its reputation... but it's also not top-tier. If I prefer Rilling then that's only because in the Rilling-style I can't readily find anything else whereas in the Leusink-style (i.e. HIP) I can, and considerably better. Like Koopman. Or Herreweghe, for I do like that beautician. :-) (Suzuki not quite so much yet; if I need aggressively HIP I adore the 1-year cycle of Kuijken on Accent SACDs.)

[chasmaniac]

if I need aggressively HIP I adore the 1-year cycle of Kuijken on Accent SACDs

This makes me hungry, but it will have to be finished and boxed before I can afford to eat it.

[Opus106]

This makes me hungry, but it will have to be finished and boxed before I can afford to eat it.

I don't know how you look so I imagined that cat in your avatar (with that expression) said those words...

[Antoine Marchand]

This makes me hungry, but it will have to be finished and boxed before I can afford to eat it.

You won't neeed to wait for a long time because Kuijken will record just one cantata for every Sunday of the liturgical year. Therefore, his complete cycle will only have around 20 discs.