The Bach Cantatas

[Opus106]

if I didn't already have most of it in these delicious individual releases; how is the set going to be relieased? Hopefully just a box of those, rather than sleeves and catch-all-booklet

Notes in PDF, which one can download from SDG's site even now. I'm guessing sleeves, perhaps with original cover photos, for the discs.

[mc ukrneal]

First of, I feel your pain. Or joy, as it were.
Secondly: I looooooove the Gardiner Pilgrimige Cantata issues... I love how they look,

Really? I think they are awful.

EDIT: TO clarify - the look, not the performances.

[jlaurson]

Notes in PDF, which one can download from SDG's site even now. I'm guessing sleeves, perhaps with original cover photos, for the discs.

Oooh. Bummer. Caressing them is one of the great joys of those releases. (I should get out more.)

[DavidW]

I really want to see affordable boxes for the Suzuki series.  Suzuki's meditative approach would compliment the more impassioned approach of Rilling (which is sitting on my shelf).

[jlaurson]

I really want to see affordable boxes for the Suzuki series.  Suzuki's meditative approach would compliment the more impassioned approach of Rilling (which is sitting on my shelf).

I reckon you missed the first four sets when they were still very much affordable? 

[DavidW]

Yep.  I missed out on those.

[Wakefield]

Yep.  I missed out on those.

I hope Bis will release a new anniversary box set including the last 15 volumes. But I fear they will prefer to release a big box of the complete series.

[prémont]

I hope Bis will release a new anniversary box set including the last 15 volumes. But I fear they will prefer to release a big box of the complete series.

Yes, too many duplicates is the sad story of the completist.

[Wakefield]

Yes, too many duplicates is the sad story of the completist.

Yes, it's painfully true.

It's not usually highlighted enough, but those four anniversary boxes on Bis are exceptionally well done because include the complete booklets of the original releases. And when I say complete booklets, I'm saying ten separate booklet into every box, which sadly it's not the usual way as the liner notes are provided in re-releases.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Please excuse vulgar product gab interruption:



I am really thinking about getting this Gardiner cantatas set [for the moment only visible iic at Amazon UK], encompassing his "Pilgrimage" series....

But I think you might get the drift... I think that, for all the right reasons, the Gardiner set of cantatas is rather overrated.

For me, what's missing is that last ounce of preparation. IOW, I don't get a sense that these cantatas have been rehearsed right down to the last syllable. Not that I blame Gardiner and his forces for that - they're on a "pilgrimage" after all.


(EDIT: There's very little left to this old assertion of mine regarding Gardiner's pilgrimage. Greater exposer had given me a new perspective. It is in every way a very fine accomplishment). 

[Opus106]

For me, what's missing is that last ounce of preparation. IOW, I don't get a sense that these cantatas have been rehearsed right down to the last syllable.

In a way that's very HIP.

[The new erato]

Yes, too many duplicates is the sad story of the completist.

Or the impatient.

[Wakefield]

For me, what's missing is that last ounce of preparation. IOW, I don't get a sense that these cantatas have been rehearsed right down to the last syllable. Not that I blame Gardiner and his forces for that - they're on a "pilgrimage" after all - but compared to those in my list above the "unrefined-ness" is noticeable.

Although your comment is moderate and well reasoned, it strikes me as unfair. But that's my problem, I know. Because what you call "lack of preparation", I see it as freshness and consubstantial to a live recording and very well suited to Gardiner's celebratory approach (Don dixit).

On the other hand, curiously, my principal problem for instance with Suzuki has been an overwhelming sense of perfection, of thing rehearsed many times until the last syllable. But this time I'm being unfair.

BTW, it was a similar sensation (too much "perfection"), what deprived me for many years of a full enjoyment of Herreweghe's approach, but I have worked about it. 

[Brian]

On the other hand, curiously, my principal problem for instance with Suzuki has been an overwhelming sense of perfection, of thing rehearsed many times until the last syllable. But this time I'm being unfair.

I know nothing about the cantatas (have never heard one!!), but Suzuki's recordings of the orchestral works left me confused and wondering why they're so acclaimed. They're just so polished and moderate and even-keeled.

[Mandryka]

I know nothing about the cantatas (have never heard one!!), but Suzuki's recordings of the orchestral works left me confused and wondering why they're so acclaimed. They're just so polished and moderate and even-keeled.

Nothing moderate and even keeled about Yoshikazu Mera, and not Suzuki neither IMO. Just listen to Wiederstehe doch der sunde.

[kishnevi]

Count me as someone who likes the Gardiner series very much, musically and physical presentation both.

The only Suzuki I have is his recording of the Motets, which did not impress me too much.  Granted,  the motets are not my favorite portion of Bach's output, but  there's nothing in Suzuki's performance that made me like them more.


The photographic series from which the Gardiner covers is taken is available as a book; I've seen in Barnes and Noble in the art section. If anyone is interested,  I'll make a note of the photographer and title the next time I'm there (although of course I only need look at the CDs to find the photographer!)

[Dancing Divertimentian]

In a way that's very HIP.

Hadn't thought of that.

[Brian]

Do you mean Brandenburgs and Suites? Who acclaimed those?

David Hurwitz over at ClassicsToday is crazy about the Suites and Brandenburgs.

[kishnevi]

Do you mean Brandenburgs and Suites? Who acclaimed those?

Especially his cantatas are very well-balanced and tidy(more and more as the volumes progressed as Jenny on the block mentioned twice). They give you a feeling between church and concert...

Perhaps it's the Messy Male Syndrome (you should see all the receipts and papers chaotically piled next to this computer) but as a rule I think "tidy" is a flaw, outside of chamber music, perhaps (and not even all chamber music, either).  Not even in Haydn symphonies (picked that because I'm listening to Fey's latest, which seems to have found the right amount of not-too-tidy for Papa*).  I want to feel, in the context of the first two centuries of the BWV listing, in church and not at a concert.


*translation: me likes what I'm hearing

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Although your comment is moderate and well reasoned, it strikes me as unfair. But that's my problem, I know. Because what you call "lack of preparation", I see it as freshness and consubstantial to a live recording and very well suited to Gardiner's celebratory approach (Don dixit).

On the other hand, curiously, my principal problem for instance with Suzuki has been an overwhelming sense of perfection, of thing rehearsed many times until the last syllable. But this time I'm being unfair.

BTW, it was a similar sensation (too much "perfection"), what deprived me for many years of a full enjoyment of Herreweghe's approach, but I have worked about it. 

I can see your point. Fair enough.

Coincidentally, I actually feel the same way you do about Suzuki - he seems terribly resolute in his approach so that not a single phrase passes by without being perfectly pressed and creased. I can see the similarities with Herreweghe but what separates the two for me is the wonderful warmth Herreweghe brings - the music becomes silky and almost aromatic.

To be fair I've yet to hear anything from Suzuki's later volumes which Herr Jens seems to feel have turned a corner of some sort. I'll definitely look into them.