Vagn Holmboe (1909-1996)

Started by Guido, March 18, 2009, 06:25:12 AM

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Madiel

I'm only intermittently in the mood for Holmboe. And I'm the guy who was obsessed enough to build a Wikipedia page for the compositions and try to catalogue all the recordings...

I find him fascinating but I've rarely found him easy to digest, not after about opus 40 to 50.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Madiel on December 08, 2021, 07:22:53 AM
I'm only intermittently in the mood for Holmboe. And I'm the guy who was obsessed enough to build a Wikipedia page for the compositions and try to catalogue all the recordings...

I find him fascinating but I've rarely found him easy to digest, not after about opus 40 to 50.

Now that is interesting. And here I thought you were that "Holmboe guy". ;) ;D

foxandpeng

Quote from: krummholz on December 07, 2021, 04:36:23 PM
Hmm... sounds like someone fell in love with that work!

Well, I can understand that!  ;D

Yes!

Quote from: MusicTurner on December 08, 2021, 07:00:02 AM
... not to mention the charming, rustic Symphony no.1 op.4.
.

And yes!

Although #6 has always been my favourite amongst the symphonies. 
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

krummholz

Quote from: foxandpeng on December 08, 2021, 08:16:12 AM
Although #6 has always been my favourite amongst the symphonies.

#6 is one of my favorites as well... just behind #9, which was even for me very much an acquired taste.

But yes, as you say, Holmboe may just not be one of those composers that floats MT's boat, and there's nothing wrong with that. Although I do think Holmboe's aesthetic is fairly close to Nielsen in many ways, it's still very possible to love Nielsen and yet find Holmboe falling a little flat.

That was my *first* impression of Holmboe, actually... but it didn't take too long for his music to "click". If one has tried to get into Holmboe for years but not quite managed it, most likely that will not happen with further exposure.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Madiel on December 08, 2021, 07:22:53 AM
I'm only intermittently in the mood for Holmboe. And I'm the guy who was obsessed enough to build a Wikipedia page for the compositions and try to catalogue all the recordings...

Hey, we all need to mix it up.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Symphonic Addict

#805
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 07, 2021, 09:05:37 PM
Minor rant time: I'm going to be honest here: I have tried for years to get into Holmboe, but I just can't seem to muster up much enthusiasm for his music and it's a shame, because there are attributes about his style that are intriguing to me like how he started off in a Bartókian, folkish idiom but then ventured off into Neoclassicism and Sibelian organic writing in his later symphonies for example, but, yet, I just can't make a connection. On paper, he seems like a composer I'd love, but this hasn't been the case for me. I'm not throwing in the towel, but I'm certainly not enthusiastic about hearing his music again.

Holmboe was an immediate hit to me when I started listening to his symphonies some years ago, of which I rank 5-8 and In Memoriam very highly, not to say most of the Chamber Concertos, the short but effective Concerto for Orchestra and the four Symphonic Metamorphoses. I recall hearing the string quartets, but I wasn't enthusiastic enough to keep listening to them.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 08, 2021, 02:00:58 PM
Holmboe was an immediate hit to me when I started listening to his symphonies some years ago, of which I rank 5-8 and In Memoriam very highly, not to say most of the Chamber Concertos, the short but effective Concerto for Orchestra and the four Symphonic Metamorphoses. I recall hearing the string quartets, but I wasn't enthusiastic enough to keep listening to them.

Yeah, he's just one of those composers who I'll probably never get into and I do own a lot of Holmboe recordings. I don't sale them or give them away, because I'm hoping one day that "lightbulb" moment will happen. You know, kind of like you and the Second Viennese School. ;) ;D

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 08, 2021, 05:19:03 PM
Yeah, he's just one of those composers who I'll probably never get into and I do own a lot of Holmboe recordings. I don't sale them or give them away, because I'm hoping one day that "lightbulb" moment will happen. You know, kind of like you and the Second Viennese School. ;) ;D

Ha! FYI, we're getting closer more and more.  :P ;D
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 08, 2021, 08:06:55 PM
Ha! FYI, we're getting closer more and more.  :P ;D

:) If you enjoy the Expressionistic angst of K. A. Hartmann (and who doesn't with a good pair of ears), then Berg's Three Pieces for Orchestra or Schoenberg's Erwartung should be right up your alley. Trust me, if you persevere with the Second Viennese School, you will be rewarded.

Madiel

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 08, 2021, 07:29:32 AM
Now that is interesting. And here I thought you were that "Holmboe guy". ;) ;D

Yeah well, the same is true of much of the music I'm most passionate about. I mean, the pop album I rate as perhaps my favourite of all time is still something I only listen to once every few years. The intensity of an experience does not correlate with how often you want to repeat it, and indeed neuroscience tells us that doing the same thing over and over is likely to lessen its effect.

I go on Holmboe binges. And Faure binges too. And then go do something else.  :laugh:
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Mirror Image

Quote from: Madiel on December 09, 2021, 02:29:25 AM
Yeah well, the same is true of much of the music I'm most passionate about. I mean, the pop album I rate as perhaps my favourite of all time is still something I only listen to once every few years. The intensity of an experience does not correlate with how often you want to repeat it, and indeed neuroscience tells us that doing the same thing over and over is likely to lessen its effect.

I go on Holmboe binges. And Faure binges too. And then go do something else.  :laugh:

Some good points there, Madiel. 8)

kyjo

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 08, 2021, 02:00:58 PM
I recall hearing the string quartets, but I wasn't enthusiastic enough to keep listening to them.

+1 Often times composers, especially 20th century ones, use the string quartet medium to produce their most "austere" and "inward" works, which often aren't very appealing to my tastes. Based on what (admittedly little) I've heard of Holmboe's SQ cycle, this seems to be the case with him. That said, I love many of his symphonies, of course!
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

krummholz

Yes, I have to admit that many of the SQs after #8 (or maybe #9) have a sameness to them that gets a little tiresome after a while. They do tend to be very austere works, but the main off-putting thing as far as I'm concerned is that the musical language is virtually identical from quartet to quartet. The material could easily be swapped between quartets, and the same could sometimes be said of whole movements, especially in the last four, #17 - #20 (where if I understand correctly, such swapping did actually occur). Nevertheless, the crafting of the individual movements is almost always quite impressive, and much of the music is very beautiful IMO.

T. D.

Quote from: krummholz on December 13, 2021, 08:27:12 AM
Yes, I have to admit that many of the SQs after #8 (or maybe #9) have a sameness to them that gets a little tiresome after a while. They do tend to be very austere works, but the main off-putting thing as far as I'm concerned is that the musical language is virtually identical from quartet to quartet. The material could easily be swapped between quartets, and the same could sometimes be said of whole movements, especially in the last four, #17 - #20 (where if I understand correctly, such swapping did actually occur). Nevertheless, the crafting of the individual movements is almost always quite impressive, and much of the music is very beautiful IMO.

Inclined to agree. I consider Holmboe's string quartets strong, but definitely prefer the earlier works. Some of this is likely personal taste (since Covid started I listen much less to austere music), but I concur about the consistency of musical language.

MusicTurner

Maybe a bit like Haydn - enjoyed, but with intermissions.

Madiel

Quote from: krummholz on December 13, 2021, 08:27:12 AM
Yes, I have to admit that many of the SQs after #8 (or maybe #9) have a sameness to them that gets a little tiresome after a while. They do tend to be very austere works, but the main off-putting thing as far as I'm concerned is that the musical language is virtually identical from quartet to quartet. The material could easily be swapped between quartets, and the same could sometimes be said of whole movements, especially in the last four, #17 - #20 (where if I understand correctly, such swapping did actually occur). Nevertheless, the crafting of the individual movements is almost always quite impressive, and much of the music is very beautiful IMO.

17-20 are a group yes, but before that there are some very distinct subgroups within what you're describing as an undifferentiated mass.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

krummholz

Quote from: Madiel on December 13, 2021, 11:20:35 AM
17-20 are a group yes, but before that there are some very distinct subgroups within what you're describing as an undifferentiated mass.

Oh, you're putting words in my mouth there, I didn't say they were an undifferentiated mass. I said there was a sameness from quartet to quartet and in some cases, movements sounded interchangeable between quartets. There's still a gradual evolution of the language - #10 and #12 are much more acerbic in sound than the last 4. And the motivic materials in #13 and #14 are different enough that I couldn't imagine swapping movements between those two. But I still get the feeling when listening to those later quartets that there isn't a lot of variety there, and that once you've heard one, you really have to go forward or backward quite a ways in his output to find something very different, at least in expression.

Karl Henning

Quote from: krummholz on December 13, 2021, 08:27:12 AM
Yes, I have to admit that many of the SQs after #8 (or maybe #9) have a sameness to them that gets a little tiresome after a while. They do tend to be very austere works, but the main off-putting thing as far as I'm concerned is that the musical language is virtually identical from quartet to quartet. The material could easily be swapped between quartets, and the same could sometimes be said of whole movements, especially in the last four, #17 - #20 (where if I understand correctly, such swapping did actually occur). Nevertheless, the crafting of the individual movements is almost always quite impressive, and much of the music is very beautiful IMO.

While I don't know the quartets nearly as well as I should like, and certainly not so well as you, but I can say that your remarks harmonize with my impressions.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

calyptorhynchus

There's something about Holmboe that you only get with very great composers: sometimes when you put on a recording you just have to stop in your tracks and listen and you think "Wow, this is real music". Happened to me a few minutes ago when I put on the Bis Metamorphoses disc (Ok, I'm typing this whilst listening, but you know what I mean).

I think the composer I get this with most after Holmboe is Havergal Brian.
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

vers la flamme

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on December 14, 2021, 01:02:09 PM
There's something about Holmboe that you only get with very great composers: sometimes when you put on a recording you just have to stop in your tracks and listen and you think "Wow, this is real music". Happened to me a few minutes ago when I put on the Bis Metamorphoses disc (Ok, I'm typing this whilst listening, but you know what I mean).

I think the composer I get this with most after Holmboe is Havergal Brian.

While I personally have yet to experience this with either Holmboe or Brian, I do know quite well and love the feeling you describe.