Vagn Holmboe (1909-1996)

[vandermolen]

Hmm. Well symphonies 9 and 10 are among my favourites, regardless of what a different performance might reveal.

Also, 32 pages of discussion... a lot of that is my fault. 

No 10 is one of my favourites too, along with 4 (great opening), 6,7 and 8. However I think that Sixten Ehrling's old LP made more impression on me than the BIS CD:

[71 dB]

Also, European buyers shouldn't consider Dacapo an especially expensive label. I just ordered Dacapo's two recent Holmboe chamber works CDs from JPC.de, the cost was 10€ each.

Sure you can find these discs cheap these days, but back when I got into classical music I was buying 4 Naxos CDs for the price of 3 (3*8 euros) in the local stores and other labels where 22 euros per disc. That made me a Naxos guy and also made composers like Holmboe totally drop out of my radar because when I bought non-Naxos discs it was because I had heard great music on radio.

[71 dB]

Dacapo's boxed sets, which are usually very nicely made and have excellent booklets, often come on sale at nice prices. I've purchased several of them, including Holmboe's chamber and string symphonies, Langgaard's symphonies, and Buxtehude's organ music...none were more than US $30.

I don't know if I like Holmboe at all, or if I like his symphonies or chamber music or something else... ...my point is there's so many composers out there it's near impossible to explore all of them in any reasonable depth. I believe we all have these composers which simply remain unknown to us because we simply don't have the money, time and energy. Exploring composers just to explore is tedious work for the most part. I want to hear something that blows my mind which makes me explore because I am obsessed. That happens maybe once a year. The last few years I have been into US politics which has taken my time, but now I feel completely fed up with politics and I feel like going back to HAPPY days of political apathy where time can be used to listen to music...

[JBS]

Sure you can find these discs cheap these days, but back when I got into classical music I was buying 4 Naxos CDs for the price of 3 (3*8 euros) in the local stores and other labels where 22 euros per disc. That made me a Naxos guy and also made composers like Holmboe totally drop out of my radar because when I bought non-Naxos discs it was because I had heard great music on radio.

Naxos prices have gone up a bit. They seem now to be in the $10-13 US range.

You might be better off with a streaming service.

[71 dB]

Holmboe was the teacher of Per Norgard, who was born in 1932, and Norgard and other composers of the 1930s generation did take after Holmboe to a degree. So, Holmboe doesn't necessarily sound as old-fashioned as you might expect. (Kind of like how Olivier Messiaen was born in 1908, but in certain works sounds like a whole generation later.)

Also, Holmboe had an avant-garde period of sorts in the late 1950s and early 1960s, when he saw his former students turning to total chromaticism and serialism, and he decided to dabble in that himself for a while.

Well, the style determines how old-fashioned I want it to be. Messiaen is a "difficult" composer for me so if Holmboe is similar I may not like it. I'm not a fan of serialism either, althou I do like Alban Berg. I prever the more modern stuff that returns to tonality. However this all depends. How a composer using a certain style is more important than the style.

[71 dB]

Naxos prices have gone up a bit. They seem now to be in the $10-13 US range.

You might be better off with a streaming service.

Yes they have and I do buy significantly less Naxos these days. When Brilliant Classics emerged on the market, Naxos lost it's special place and at the same time Amazon started having "sellers" of used discs and around 2010 I was buying used CDs for under £2 delivered.  When you can buy some stuff at that price, a £10 Holmboe disc looks kind of expensive.

[JBS]

Well, the style determines how old-fashioned I want it to be. Messiaen is a "difficult" composer for me so if Holmboe is similar I may not like it. I'm not a fan of serialism either, althou I do like Alban Berg. I prever the more modern stuff that returns to tonality. However this all depends. How a composer using a certain style is more important than the style.

I find Messiaen to be much more "difficult" than Holmboe.  I am like you in preferring music that has some connection to tonality.

Yes they have and I do buy significantly less Naxos these days. When Brilliant Classics emerged on the market, Naxos lost it's special place and at the same time Amazon started having "sellers" of used discs and around 2010 I was buying used CDs for under £2 delivered.  When you can buy some stuff at that price, a £10 Holmboe disc looks kind of expensive.

Quick check of Amazon US shows some (not all of them) of the BIS symphony CDs offered at $3-5 plus shipping for used copies (the complete set is not cheap, however, even used). Would that be in your price range?

[71 dB]

I find Messiaen to be much more "difficult" than Holmboe.  I am like you in preferring music that has some connection to tonality.

Ok. I think Alban Berg has a brilliant "connection" to tonality.

Quick check of Amazon US shows some (not all of them) of the BIS symphony CDs offered at $3-5 plus shipping for used copies (the complete set is not cheap, however, even used). Would that be in your price range?

Well, I don't order anything from US anymore*, but European Amazons** may have good deals. However, I am not shopping. I expressed how Holmboe has remained unknown for me. I didn't say I'm changing it.

* shipping to Finland ridiculously costly rendering cheap items expensive + fear of custom bills.

** there has been rumours of Finnish/Nordic Amazon which would be great. When I order from UK Amazon, it takes like 2 weeks to receive the item! It's not like in UK or US where you have these same day deliveries. That's one of the very few things that SUCK in Finland. Despite of this, Finland was just ranked the happiest country in the World third year in the row. 

[JBS]

Ok. I think Alban Berg has a brilliant "connection" to tonality.

Well, I don't order anything from US anymore*, but European Amazons** may have good deals. However, I am not shopping. I expressed how Holmboe has remained unknown for me. I didn't say I'm changing it.

* shipping to Finland ridiculously costly rendering cheap items expensive + fear of custom bills.

** there has been rumours of Finnish/Nordic Amazon which would be great. When I order from UK Amazon, it takes like 2 weeks to receive the item! It's not like in UK or US where you have these same day deliveries. That's one of the very few things that SUCK in Finland. Despite of this, Finland was just ranked the happiest country in the World third year in the row. 

Amazon US is obviously quickest for me to check, but their marketplace vendors are usually the same as Amazon Europe. I wasn't actually expecting you to order from the US, but prices are probably similar to Europe. Have you ever used Amazon Germany?

[71 dB]

Amazon US is obviously quickest for me to check, but their marketplace vendors are usually the same as Amazon Europe. I wasn't actually expecting you to order from the US, but prices are probably similar to Europe. Have you ever used Amazon Germany?

Yes, I have used Amazon Germany, but not as much as UK Amazon. Germany releases some Blu-rays UK doesn't (the differences within Europe regarding Blu-ray releases is astonishing! Not much else is the same than the new blockbuster flicks - for older/obscure movies it's fragmented as hell). Amazon.de has usually higher market place seller shipping prices, but the delivery is usually much quicker than from UK (geographical distance to Finland almost the same). Brexit may force more business with Germany... 

[calyptorhynchus]

I think with the BIS symphonies we're very grateful to have them but we realise they could be played better. 

[Madiel]

I'm not entirely sure how people can know that for the many symphonies where no other recording exists. Unless you've been at a live performance, which in most parts of the world is pretty unlikely.

Having said that, I've been meaning to try some of the few alternatives, such as the original recording of no.10. I'm pretty sure I saw it's online these days.

[calyptorhynchus]

I'm just going by the fact that when I have heard non-BIS recordings of Holmboe symphonies they sound better than the BIS recordings.

[CRCulver]

I find Messiaen to be much more "difficult" than Holmboe.  I am like you in preferring music that has some connection to tonality.

Except for a couple of minor works in the 1950s that few ever hear, Messiaen never broke his connection to tonality. If you find Messiaen challenging, which is fair, then this is likely due to form or language and not harmony per se.

[71 dB]

Except for a couple of minor works in the 1950s that few ever hear, Messiaen never broke his connection to tonality. If you find Messiaen challenging, which is fair, then this is likely due to form or language and not harmony per se.

Form and language are the problem for me.

[Symphonic Addict]

I just bought one of the BIS Holmboe discs after seeing it at a local book store. It is Owain Arwel Hughes conducting the symphonies 1, 3 & 10. I have yet to hear any of it yet as I'm kind of hooked on Tubin at the moment, and for some reason I expect I will end up comparing one to the other if I explore their music simultaneously. Fairly soon I will write back in this thread with my thoughts. 32 pages of discussion means that Holmboe must be an important composer to many of y'all here.

If you like his Symphony No. 8 Sinfonia Boreale, then you're a convert, or you should be it. 

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Quartet question

This is prompted by seeing that a new Holmboe quartet cycle has started recording.

I've never heard any of his quartets. What would be a good starter disc?

[Madiel]

Quartet question

This is prompted by seeing that a new Holmboe quartet cycle has started recording.

I've never heard any of his quartets. What would be a good starter disc?

Um, to be honest I'm not sure there is quite such a thing as a good starter... It's a bit like Shostakovich in that there really aren't any 'early' quartets (whereas there are plenty of early symphonies). And the more approachable ones are kind of scattered around.

I'd say maybe the disc with 2/5/6  or the one with 10/11/12 (I think no.11 is one of the easiest ones to get a handle on).

The first volume by the Nightingale Quartet was actually already supposed to be out, but has been pushed back by the pandemic. I'm now seeing January as a release date?

[MusicTurner]

I've always wanted further recordings of the symphonies (with bigger orchestral sound and a more 'romantic' approach, not that there aren't good things about Hughes on BIS - symphonies 1, 11-13 are really good, IMO, for example), and the string quartets (where I'm not a big fan of the Kontra4 sound generally, and the elder series of LP recordings have poor audio).

[Madiel]

For the symphonies, Da Capo actually told me they were looking at a cycle of recordings when I visited their offices in 2015 (yes, I did do that). I guess it didn't happen.